Worlds 2021 US Selection Camp (October 8-11)

[rue_des_plantes]

I don’t know. The more time goes on, the more I think that if Penny had intentions or tried to meddle in 2013, Marta wasn’t some sort of virtuous actor (generally or here specifically) whose hand needed any kind of emphatic or tragic forcing to arrive at sacking Dowell, assuming she didn’t agree from the get-go.

The strategy is good. A Simone Classics redux was perfectly possible, Maroney’s a fine AA’er for individual Worlds, and Dowell got squarely two-per’d by that 3-person core on everything even if they absorbed 0.3-0.5s. So IMO the question shouldn’t be why let Maroney do AA; it’s why chop up that AA spot just to let Dowell do fruitless bars and beam routines by virtue of a fourth spot existing?

Dowell was the type of athlete Marta was always going to hate—stiff, unreliable, routines always changing, poor presentation-dance elements-basics like BHS, worst event is beam, coaches suck and don’t listen, scores generally don’t factor into individual finals without luck. Marta wasn’t going out of her way to do her any favors.

Hopefully the Fongs took things more seriously than fans did when Marta told the media she was considering 3 AAers and that Maroney’s in the mix for AA in Antwerp as long as she does it at camp, and that this was communicated to Dowell. The decision had to be understandably gutting regardless.

 

[choclatechip45]

With everything that has come out about Penny I believe this story. All he cared about was $$$ and Maroney was very popular after the London Olympics.

 

[rue_des_plantes]

With everything that has come out about Penny I believe this story. All he cared about was $$$ and Maroney was very popular after the London Olympics.

And that could be well true. My point is that “Penny did Antwerp” with little or no context is an oversimplification that absolves Marta of responsibility and suggests she was some sort of moral or tactical victim, and I don’t buy that she was. I think it was easy to convince her, or she was actively amenable to such a plan given circumstances which presented themselves amply. Execs’ and Marta’s wishes aren’t mutually exclusive after a certain point, and at the very least they represent a sort of convergent evolution.

 

[choclatechip45]

That’s fair and I agree Martha probably went along with it for the reasons you gave.

 

[Doug1233]

Dowell was the type of athlete Marta was always going to hate—stiff, unreliable, routines always changing, poor presentation-dance elements-basics like BHS, worst event is beam, coaches suck and don’t listen, scores generally don’t factor into individual finals without luck. Marta wasn’t going out of her way to do her any favors

Harsh and painful to read but all 100% correct.

Note how they cut the bar routine here after the transition:



I often forget that she had a pretty ok Amanar too. With Maroney injured for much of early 2013 I bet her coaches thought this vault would make her a shoo-in for the team:



This is a routine fong posted. This was so watered down and was never gonna get it done. Awful construction:



I’m pretty sure they used to have a Brenna interview in this playlist but now it’s not in there. Here, Maroney talks about how much being chosen for AA means to her. She also talks about how Larry told her they were going to take the cover off the floor as it was slippery (?!):



You can see why Marta took a chance on her in Glasgow. The progression to here was phenomenal:



Marta did give her the opportunity. You can’t fault her for that. She left Key and Baumann at home and gave Brenna her shot to get the Double Pike in the Code and to try and make bars finals.

Makes watching this interview so sad for her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFjfgrz_34o

Anyway. Sorry. Back on topic. It’s crazy that Antwerp was 8 fuxking years ago. God we are so old!!!

 

[Passion]

With everything that has come out about Penny I believe this story. All he cared about was $$$ and Maroney was very popular after the London Olympics.

I mean it’s not really a story with a source. It’s just what people were guessing at the time.

 

[kimbee]

I thought that after Ross made AA finals over Maroney, USAG wanted to pull Ross so that Maroney could do AA. And Ross’ parents told USAG that was not going to happen and that they’d pull Ross from the rest of the meet if USAG insisted.

I wish we had access to wwgym archives.

 

[Doug1233]

I don’t remember that!

 

[Jack]

I thought it was a fantastic meet, especially for a post Olympic worlds. Simone’s debut, and the tension whether or not she would repeat her classics performances, Kyla Ross at her absolute best, and Mustafina gave some of the best performances of her career. There were also some huge skills (Aliya’s Seitz, Yao’s Mo, and the Moors). I loved it.

 

[MaryClare]

I’m not sure that her parents made any difference. I don’t think you can bring a lawsuit about it in the same way you can about selection procedures. If the team doctor says an athlete isn’t fit to compete then there isn’t a lot of leverage there

 

[MaryClare]

Ok, I am gonna go re watch it NOW

 

[Jack]

You have to wonder with Brenna’s benching if Martha was justified given what happened in 2015 or the benching and lack of experience contributed to that hot mess of a bars routine.

That bars routine was even more mismanaged than Eaker’s beam routine in a lot of ways. The constant tinkering and changing it up let to so many disasters. I think she hit that routine maybe twice the entire quad. Good for her though for having a very unexpectedly good Amanar.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I thought 2013 was good compared to 2017. 2013 had Simone, Kyla, McKayla, Aliya, and Larisa. Not to mention, the US men did really well.

 

[rue_des_plantes]

You have to wonder with Brenna’s benching if Martha was justified given what happened in 2015 or the benching and lack of experience contributed to that hot mess of a bars routine.

That bars routine was even more mismanaged than Eaker’s beam routine in a lot of ways. The constant tinkering and changing it up let to so many disasters. I think she hit that routine maybe twice the entire quad. Good for her though for having a very unexpectedly good Amanar.

She had Trials, Scam, 2 Jesolos, Chemnitz, and IIRC was non-traveling alternate for Nanning (beat up and not back in time to challenge Desch, IIRC). So, no Worlds/Olympics before Glasgow, but it’s not like she was very green. I’m not sure getting up there and doing 2013’s set once in prelims would have made 2015 go much more easily, considering how different the sets were, her lack of competition in 2014, and how often Al changed the composition, but obviously it’s hard to mentally block out Antwerp.

IMO, KJ Kindler all but vindicated Brenna and proved the Fongs were the problem. If you would have told me 2013-2016 that Dowell would eventually not only be doing beam for Oklahoma (!), but also doing AA and acting as a legitimate 9.9 machine everywhere for them, I’d consider it a distress call or block you for trolling. But sure enough, moving away from the Fongs and axing all Al’s “ideas” and FIG skill count filler while keeping her routines consistent and being supportive of her ended up working. Who would have guessed!

 

[RedBirdie]

I think the decision to put Ross on the first subdivison, Biles in the middle, and Maroney last was at least somewhat indicative how USAG wanted them to do. Its not like Maroney was going to miss out on vault finals, no matter was subdivision she was in. Instead she gets to do AA in the last group?

 

[Jack]

Al had some really spicy takes about it at the time. What an idiot.

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[blake]

The Fongs are stuck in 2006. That’s the only way I can make sense of why their athletes have marathon routines that max out at like a 5.6 D.

 

[MaryClare]

Wait, Al is suggesting that Brenna was disadvantaged in the training hall as a “strong vaulter”. As opposed to checks notes McKayla Maroney and Simone Biles…

 

[Doug1233]

The funny thing is that the bar routine he posted as proof that that she has “one of the best bar routines in the world at this time” was dog shit.

ETA: Fong is weird as fuck. Looking over some of those other posts, he talks about his gymnasts having a “listening problem” in terms of being ready for elite, and so…

 

[RedBirdie]

Yeah, that was some…interesting…reading