USAG still doesn't have the first clue how +1 spots work--Statement on Jade Carey

[Doug1233]

If Kocian was getting a 9.1, then that routine I posted from Ashton should be getting 9.5. But you’re right, a 9.5 was probably above the ceiling.

But objectively speaking - that bar routine I posted above was the best bar routine of the Quad, hands down. And maybe the most well executed full elite bar routine ever.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I had her at a 9.2, but didn’t deduct for the flexed/sickled feet she developed on her taps later in her elite career because I can’t see them at this angle. The first half of the routine is particularly gorgeous

 

[Doug1233]

If you gave her a 9.2, what would you have given Kocian for her EF routine? Surely not 9.1

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

That routine is stunning, I’d never seen it before.

It’s so difficult though, because in order to do the best job of selecting a team, you have to take into account what you think people will get as well as what they objectively should.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Kocian probably would’ve been mid-high 8s for me lol. I never understood what aspects of her routine supposedly tidied so much from 2015 to 2016. I much prefer both Locklear and Douglas on bars. Douglas’ TF bars in Rio was exquisite

 

[Doug1233]

I agree. I saw barely any improvement to Kocian’s routines from 2015 to 2016, but somehow she went from 8.5 to 9.1.

Remember the four way tie was like 15.233 or something? Yet by Rio, Mustafina and Kocian were getting 15.9’s. The judging certainly loosened, which would have been detrimental to Locklear.

Gabby really did clean up between Nationals/Trials and Rio on bars. Her handstands were beautiful.

But given the dearth of AA talent on the US team, they really could have taken Locklear and have been completely fine. People always think of Kocian as a bars specialist; but put her on any other team and she would have been their AA star.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The issue with Kocian and AA wasn’t whether her 4 event total could be competitive, it was whether she could’ve stayed healthy doing it.

 

[Jack]

Kocian was vaulting a NCAA 9.7 FTY by Trials anyway, she and her bird bones would have been destroyed attempting the AA.

 

[Doug1233]

Didnt she get like a 59 AA at Nationals with a DTY?

 

[MRR]

In 2015:

 

[emmade]

I think Kocian was the smarter choice simply because she could be used AA if needed. Yes, she was injury prone, but I think she was worth the risk. Locklear was only useful on beam if something went wrong with the other girls.

 

[glamafonic]

I think what’s being discussed is that they could’ve taken Locklear over Gabby, not Kocian. Since Gabby’s impact was mostly just two bar routines and getting 2-per’d AA in prelims. Kocian could’ve done AA in prelims and Locklear taken the TF and UB finals spots.

I think it’s one of those things that makes perfect sense in retrospect, but at the time with Locklear only having two events (and one of them subpar) and Gabby having been the 2nd best AAer in the world the year before it seemed an obvious choice.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I think Douglas had a better DTY than Hernandez in Rio.

Here, at 5:05, is Hernandez’s DTY from TF where she didn’t quite fully-rotate the flip, and yet scored much higher than some comparable DTYs. So, scoring-wise it didn’t matter, but I do think Douglas was the better vaulter.



I also would’ve much rather seen Douglas on BB in TF than Raisman but whatever lol

 

[emmade]

I agree. I preferred Douglas’ DTY to Hernandez and recall being a little disappointed with the decision to use Hernandez in TF.

The whole Douglas vs Kocian vs Locklear is a little moot in the end. The US wound up with all the medals that they were aiming for. The depth of the US field is just ridiculous. As a petty aside - I didn’t like Locklear’s mean girl attitude, whereas I could cope with the moody teenager attitude of Douglas. I don’t know how taking Locklear over Douglas would have affected team chemistry or if that would have affected team outcomes. I suspect it would make no difference, but it should always be a consideration.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The problem was that Gabby did her worst DTY for ages in prelims, and Laurie one of her best ever. And then she was held up in TFs, there’s no way she’d have got that execution score if she’d been vaulting in a Guatemalan leotard. I would’ve preferred to see Gabby lead off vault, and tactically it sends a great message to kick things off with the reigning Olympic champion, but I also wondered if it was to try and help Laurie get any jitters out before beam.

I still think Gabby continuing to train the Amanar was such a bad idea. Her DTY was fantastic, she was on a solid 15.3 pretty much every time in 2015. The very best Amanars not from Simone were in the 15.6-7 bracket at 2015 worlds, people like Paseka and Hong Un Jong who were both a league better than Gabby on vault. She was looking at a couple of tenths absolute best case scenario for a vault she couldn’t do consistently. Meanwhile the DTY got worse and valuable training time could perhaps have been allocated elsewhere.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I know there were reports of Hernandez having an ab injury and struggling on bars in the training gym, but I don’t think we ever saw any video of her struggles.

I wonder Haney asked for Hernandez to compete three events in TF because she didn’t get to do AA in TQ. Is that a ridiculous theory? Hernandez became a star after TF and had those sponsorships lines up.

 

[Doug1233]

I think Laurie herself has confirmed that she had an ab injury.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I don’t really think Laurie doing a DTY in TFs was going to have much of an impact on her commercial viability. That was all about her floor.

 

[irichluck21]

As well as balance beam, where she really seemed to sparkle with confidence and even more so than FX.