UCLA, Alexis Jeffery, gymnasts calling out athletic director

[Jack]

No, none of that. There’s no music that people can’t participate in; non-Black people just need to not say the N word. If you’re white, you can still listen to/enjoy Megan Thee Stallion without saying every word in her songs. Believe it or not, it’s really easy to choose not to say one word!

People shouldn’t have to change their taste in music simply because others are racist. I don’t think I’ve ever gone to the club and not heard the word played in songs–surely the DJ was not purposely attempting to provoke everyone???

I’m just quoting all of this because it’s clear that some people here need to read this again. It’s shameful that a bunch of people who aren’t black think that they can dictate what is and is not an appropriate use of the n-word. There will be a variety of opinions in the black community, but if you don’t share that identity, shut the hell up and listen to them.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Just want to be clear that I am not Black but my focus here is to amplify what I’ve learned from Black peers.

 

[Jack]

Exactly! Listen and amplify.

 

[Doug1233]

it’s clear that some people here need to read this again

this is what I do not like about the Twitter discourse.

 

[Puffin]

I saw this written transcript of the podcast with Marz and Sekai, It is very thought provoking and seems to show a management culture of trying to sweep everything under the carpet … but then expected the team to dress up in Black power leos for a BLM meet having ignored the team concerns

Transcript: Side Effects of Fighting For What's Right at UCLA Gymnastics (with Margzetta Frazier and Sekai Wright)

docs.google.com

 

[rlayt]

That is isolating someone, which is opposite of inclusivity.
If this was such an issue, then the best way to handle it is to play music that everyone can participate and sing to, should the team decide to do some impromptu dancing and singing while training.

I completely agree. It is not inclusive. As soon as anyone became aware they should have asked the team AS A GROUP to make a list of music that does not contain offensive words. Words offensive to anyone. Why haven’t they done it now!? It’s like the staff has their heads up their butts. DO SOME DAMAGE CONTROL. People are tired of the mess. People are tired of being disregarded or looked down on. Be an ally!

 

[Gymmama]

This has been a very respectful discussion. If you want to rant and yell at people, please go back to Twitter.

 

[JaJa]

This has been a very respectful discussion. If you want to rant and yell at people, please go back to Twitter

It has been a respectful and a productive discussion. I would suggest ignoring posts which are not respectful and which have a bullying tone and just engaging with the majority of people here who truly seem to be trying to get at the right answer here.

 

[JaJa]

If the staff isn’t/ doesn’t manage and lead when issues occur you will have retribution. I don’t know if sardines and bleach happened but things got out of hand. It could have been a time of learning instead.

This would have been a perfect situation to introduce restorative justice processes to. A negative could have been turned into a positive. Totally mismanaged.

 

[rue_des_plantes]

FWIW, Jeffrey is part-Asian, not black.

I like the response of using this as a learning opportunity for AJ.

I’m not a fan of cancel culture. While I think she should face some discipline, I don’t think that kicking her off the team or banning her for life from college gymnastics is the right decision either. We are all human and mistakes will be made. Ostracizing people is not the correct way to encourage change and better the culture. Doing so will only further solidify and justify her belief that she was not in the wrong and won’t produce the desired change everyone seems to want.

…and this was Marz’s position and what the athletes wanted, if you actually listened to the podcast. Nobody involved said kick her off and blacklist her. They asked for education beyond a generic HR meeting where somebody who doesn’t know the situation walks in, sits in a circle with a clipboard, and asks whose feelings have been hurt by Alexis. Marz was a lot more gracious about giving second (and third, and fourth) chances and educating than most would assume.

Frazier and Wright had very little interest in re-litigating the original n-word incidents or drawing battle lines when prompted by Amanda, and their responses were far more focused on the institutional responses, like how Frazier was told by a coach it would be her teammates’ fault if Jeffrey killed herself, and the assistant AD whining they weren’t “over it yet.”

 

[Jack]

As if you would listen to my points if they were made any other way. I’m just venting frustration about a conversation that is loaded with privilege and fragility.

 

[Doug1233]

loaded with privilege and fragility

In your opinion.

 

[Gymmama]

My comments were directed at those ranting on Twitter and demanding for her removal, not at her teammates. I’m sorry if I didn’t make that distinction.

The comment that if AJ were to take her own life that it would be “their” fault, I interpreted the “their” to mean the coaches.

 

[Jack]

Look at the optics. A large group of (presumably) non-black people deciding whether or not a group of black gymnasts had the right to feel offended by the use of the n-word in a specific context. That’s not for us to decide.

 

[Gymmama]

I would have been much more open to listening had you stated your point in a respectful manner like a mature adult. But I can guarantee you that if someone is yelling at me and telling me to “shut the hell up”, then you are wasting your time and breath because I will not give you the time of day or give any credence when you state your point in that manner.

 

[Doug1233]

I don’t think anyone here is arguing that they shouldn’t have been offended. Unless I am mistaken, in which I apologize.

I think, instead, the argument is that if a word is so offensive that a white or Asian person saying it would cause offense, it’s probably not a word that they should be playing on the stereo in the gym.

It’s not “privilege and fragility” to disagree with the "I’m allowed to say it but you can’t" rhetoric.

How about NO-ONE say it, if it’s so offensive?

I think it’s a horrible word and I cringe whenever I hear it. And I DGAF who is saying it.

We should be able to have an intelligent nuanced discussion without accusations of white fragility being slung around.

 

[Jack]

 

[Doug1233]

I’m just quoting all of this because it’s clear that some people here need to read this again. It’s shameful that a bunch of people who aren’t black think that they can dictate what is and is not an appropriate use of the n-word. There will be a variety of opinions in the black community, but if you don’t share that identity, shut the hell up and listen to them.

Listen and amplify.

Thought experiment:

Would you hold the same view if you changed “black community” to “gay community” and the n-word to the q-word?

And I’m specifically referring to the gay community here.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I’m finding the conversation surrounding music to be something that merits being moved to an off-topic thread.

To my knowledge, none of the UCLA gymnasts reported the music was offensive.

Moreover, there are myriad stories of Jeffrey using the word in other settings and being racist by saying her Black teammates have the worst bodies.

 

[Doug1233]

Moreover, there are myriad stories of Jeffrey using the word in other settings

The “niggardly” comment was outrageous, if true.