UCLA, Alexis Jeffery, gymnasts calling out athletic director

[daniTS]

Marz and Sekai were interviewed on Amanda Seales podcast today : https://t.co/rx5BzdGmCx

I hope that link works, otherwise it’s linked on Margzetta’s twitter. I’m running out the door and don’t have time to summarize but several people are on twitter if you don’t have time to listen. I thought it was well worth the time though!

 

[falcon9]

‎Small Doses with Amanda Seales: Side Effects of Fighting For What's Right at UCLA Gymnastics (with Margzetta Frazier and Sekai Wright) on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Small Doses with Amanda Seales, Ep Side Effects of Fighting For What's Right at UCLA Gymnastics (with Margzetta Frazier and Sekai Wright) - Jan 26, 2022

podcasts.apple.com

 

[QuietColours]

Daily Bruins article covering the podcast episode.

It’s pretty clear at this point who is saying what on the UCLA athlete side. Is there any attribution for the hazing/bullying accusations? I’ve seen them in a couple places, but never with any information on where they came from–even if just “anonymous UCLA athlete” or “another NCAA gymnast parent” or something like that

 

[rlayt]

I have not seen any names attached to the allegations of bullying. If it is true someone needs to attach their name to it.

 

[Kittentoes]

Call me avoidant, I would be very careful what I played for practice if I was in charge of that. You want to be careful what you’re practicing.(I sound like my dad…)

 

[blake]

For a team that has preached “inclusivity” it certainly doesn’t seem very inclusive to me to play music that only certain team members are allowed to participate in.

it’s literally one word those team member can’t say?? What do they gain by saying it? It’s not a horrible miscarriage of justice against the girls who can’t say the word - it’s one word. If you know the lyrics well enough to sing along, you can remember to omit it. It’s not difficult.

 

[Seyonne]

Another childhood memory: Early 1980’s, sitting in the back seat of the car loudly singing along to a song which contained the line “She’s so goddamn cold!”, knowing mustn’t say that part. Everything is fine, just not that. But, hey, you know what it’s like in the middle of singing a song. One word flows easily into the next. Of course, I sang that part out loud and my dad’s head whipped around so fast. The radio snapped off and we rode in silence the rest of the way.

 

[irichluck21]

it’s literally one word those team member can’t say?? What do they gain by saying it? It’s not a horrible miscarriage of justice against the girls who can’t say the word - it’s one word.

Do you not see the hypocrisy of the whole situation.

UCLA has made a reputation of themselves for being social justice warriors with messages of equality and inclusivity.
This is all fantastic.

However, if this is the message and mission of the gymnastics team then within your own team you cannot promote practices of division and separation. “You can’t sing these lyrics because you are white” IS dividing the team and excluding certain gymnasts from the activities.

If Marz, Flatley, et all were true leaders, they would insist on full inclusivity and stepped into this situation and resolved it. They could have held a team meeting, explain that this happened and it can be offensive so moving forward the team will select music that can be enjoyed by all members of the team without potentially alienating others.

Alexis definitely went way too far. But the rest of the team also pushed and participated in drama if both sides add up to what really happened.

It might be “literally one word” but if half the team can say it but the others cannot then it is not inclusive of all members of the team, which completely goes against their mantra.

Can you imagine the outcry if one of the white gymnasts told a gymnast of color that they couldn’t sing a word in a song?

 

[irichluck21]

Also a point that needs to be made, as it appears the gymnternet is out for Jay Clark’s blood, is that he didn’t make the decision on his own.

He asked the athletes, who unanimously agreed to take Alexis onto the team.

He also talked to Ashley Clare-Kearny Thigpen who on top of being a woman of color is also the associate athletics director for diversity, equity, and inclusion who conducted interviews with Alexis and her father and investigated the manner. She urged him to continue the process, so she gave her seal of approval.

So there this isn’t just a Jay Clark doing what he wanted to, it appears he followed protocols and also invited others into the discussion to add their input and opinion.

This just seems like a completely unfortunate situation and misunderstanding between teammates that was not handled properly by all parties involved and blew up to the point that it got out of hand.

UCLA needs to move on as they made their point and Alexis Jeffrey gets to start over, hopefully having learned a lesson and bettering herself. If UCLA gymnasts are not happy with the decisions the higher ups made that is their opinion at this point. If it was legit and true racism the outcome would have been different. This is why there are investigations that take place.

 

[Doug1233]

literally one word those team member can’t say??

I guess the question is “which” team members can’t say it?

The rumor is that Alexis felt she could. Who is Marz to say that she’s not “black enough” to sing it?

 

[Sasha]

It might be “literally one word” but if half the team can say it but the others cannot then it is not inclusive of all members of the team, which completely goes against their mantra.

Hmm, I disagree with this perspective. Defining inclusive as treating everyone exactly the same goes against current Equity, Diversity and Inclusion thinking, which recognises that people do differ in terms of abilities, resources, and sensitivities. I don’t think that white people and black people using the n-word is equivalent.

I think the bigger issue here from a practical perspective is that there is no clear line between who is black and who is not. Alexis Jeffrey says she considers herself a woman of colour, which I find ludicrous, but who is the ultimate judge of that? No one. Which opens the door to these sorts of conflicts. Banning the use of songs that include racial slurs seems like a pretty simple and sensible way to prevent these sorts of situations.

 

[JaJa]

I don’t think that white people and black people using the n-word is equivalent.

It isn’t. Minority groups can use self-referential words which would be derogatory on another’s lips. But when the word is in a song that is being played and people are singing and dancing to it, it becomes absolutely ludicrous to expect the non minority folks to refrain from singing that one word.

But then escalating it by saying “your definition of free speech is niggardly” was an obvious crossing of the line by Alexis.

That’s the first thing. Second thing is we are still not clear on who when where how the sardine/bleach incidents occurred because once stuff like that happens crying about how you are psychologically damaged because someone who isn’t black enough sang the N word along with you as you played the song doesn’t cut it.

I am back to thinking everyone here behaved badly, and that includes the grownups who could have defused the whole thing early on but chose not to. Now we need full accounts of what happened and when to make any fair determination of relative culpability. But there seems to be blame enuff to go around.

 

[rlayt]

isn’t. Minority groups can use self-referential words which would be derogatory on another’s lips. But when the word is in a song that is being played and people are singing and dancing to it, it becomes absolutely ludicrous to expect the non minority folks to refrain from singing that one word.

But then escalating it by saying “your definition of free speech is niggardly” was an obvious crossing of the line by Alexis.

That’s the first thing. Second thing is we are still not clear on who when where how the sardine/bleach incidents occurred because once stuff like that happens crying about how you are psychologically damaged because someone who isn’t black enough sang the N word along with you as you played the song doesn’t cut it.

I am back to thinking everyone here behaved badly, and that includes the grownups who could have defused the whole thing early on but chose not to. Now we need full accounts of what happened and when to make any fair determination of relative culpability. But there seems to be blame enuff to go around.

This. That’s where I stand. It never had to go that far. If the staff isn’t/ doesn’t manage and lead when issues occur you will have retribution. I don’t know if sardines and bleach happened but things got out of hand. It could have been a time of learning instead.

 

[irichluck21]

Defining inclusive as treating everyone exactly the same goes against current Equity, Diversity and Inclusion thinking, which recognises that people do differ in terms of abilities, resources, and sensitivities. I don’t think that white people and black people using the n-word is equivalent.

Again…allowing music in practice that contains offensive words to others if used by certain team members…but not all, is not a definition of inclusion and equality and team unity.

You seem to be missing the point. The team participated in an activity, dancing and singing, to a song played in practice.
But became upset when a member of the team sang the lyrics and others felt it was offensive and shouldn’t be doing it.

That is isolating someone, which is opposite of inclusivity.
If this was such an issue, then the best way to handle it is to play music that everyone can participate and sing to, should the team decide to do some impromptu dancing and singing while training. Instead, they continued to play music with certain offensive lyrics in it demanding that someone else on the team not sing the word.

That is opposite of team unity and is hypocrisy.

 

[Gabriel]

Margzetta and Sekai

 

[Puffin]

The Daily Bruin has done an article based on the podcast and it seems that their was MUCH more than song lyrics - from the article

“More than one thing was said that was very inappropriate, whether that was racially, whether it was ranking girls on their ugliness or body shape,” Frazier said on the podcast. “And obviously the Black girls would all be at the bottom rank-wise.”

 

[JaJa]

This is all true too.

 

[Gymmama]

Honestly I think Jay Clark handled this as best as he could, especially with limited information from UCLA. I think it was very wise of him to include ACK and to talk to gymnasts from both sides. I like the response of using this as a learning opportunity for AJ.

I’m not a fan of cancel culture. While I think she should face some discipline, I don’t think that kicking her off the team or banning her for life from college gymnastics is the right decision either. We are all human and mistakes will be made. Ostracizing people is not the correct way to encourage change and better the culture. Doing so will only further solidify and justify her belief that she was not in the wrong and won’t produce the desired change everyone seems to want.

 

[JaJa]

Right. But what was that about? I heard that podcast and there were no specifics. Who said or wrote what and when.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Other notes from the podcast…

So the UCLA gymnasts compared notes and came up with numerous circumstances in which Jeffery used the N word and other defamatory language, despite being addressed about it numerous times.

Jeffery never once apologized.

One coach told Frazier, Wright, and others that it would be “their fault” if Jeffery killed herself.