Simone’s Yurchenko Double Pike

[glamafonic]

Full quote:

“I think it would be fair to fight that fight to get a higher value [but] we’re gonna take a step back and whatever the value it’s given, we’re just gonna take that. You have to pick and choose your battles and I don’t think this is one we’re going to choose.”

“Of course we’d want it to be a higher value, but it looks like it’s not going to be, so what are we gonna do? I’m not gonna be a brat about it. I’m still gonna go out there and do it regardless of what the value is.”

 

[Concorde]

Hmm… I do think the YDP could be a smidge higher(at most .2)… Is it probable/possible for the FIG to rate it higher than the provisional SV that the US gave it?

Assuming they consulted with Perskaia, whom is a WTC member, I would think that the 6.6 rating will be the final D score the vault is awarded.

 

[RedBirdie]

I was under the impression they already submitted it to FIG and that’s where the 6.6 came from. Not USAG just randomly pulling a number out of their ass.

 

[glamafonic]

I’m pretty sure this is the case, yeah.

 

[makam]

Is it not absurd that even if the moves don’t have names, they don’t have numbers/values for them? Like now that there is a YDP, put a YDTuck and a YDLayout with values in the code book and name them when someone does it. And pre-value the TTY. Nabieva from a stalder, Nabieva from an Inbar, half twist versions of each full twist versions, etc. Like is is pretty obvious someone is going to attempt it sooner or later, and it would help them figure out their own dumb code iterations. Jade’s trip/dub on floor in layout, well, figure out what a trip/dub pike would be and code it up at the same time.

Really, it shouldn’t be a shock to anyone at any point unless you do something super weird/unique/unanticipated.

 

[Concorde]

Is it not absurd that even if the moves don’t have names, they don’t have numbers/values for them? Like now that there is a YDP,

This is actually the way things used to be. The tsuk - double pike was actually in the 1985-1988 COP, while the Yurchenko double pike was listed in the 1997-2000 COP.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Yeah, the WTC went a little cuckoo in anticipation. They rated a tucked 1.5 salto on, tucked 1.5 salto off on vault a 10.0 in the 1989-1992 CoP.

 

[RAFIKI]

I am really struggling to visualise that pre-flight.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

James May did something not too dissimilar, from a Yurchenko entry though.

WTF James May’s RO Arabian 1 and 3 quarter to handspring on vault.avi - YouTube

So I can sort of see why they might consider how to value that entry family in case WAGs started to do it… the one and a half saltos off is less explicable though!

 

[onodian]

He’s basically using his “block” to move his body out of the way of the horse.

Now that I’m phrasing this i just thought of mykaylas cheng which is kind of the same but in reverse

 

[RAFIKI]

Thanks for sharing that. Love the gasp from the audience.

Sounds like something certain gymnasts could try into a pit but not feasible or desirable (can’t imagine a good E score) for competition.

 

[Doug1233]

6.6 is SO FUCKING HIGH.

A prod is 6.4 and IMO a prod is more difficult.

I also think the half on 2/1 off being the same as a prod is also too high.

She needs to be quiet on this. The beam dismount sure. But this? Just shush.

 

[glamafonic]

“Just shush” is a bit much when she’s just answering the question being put to her and outright saying she accepts the decision. Which she’s said, btw, every time she’s been asked about the value.

Do you want her to lie and say she doesn’t wish it had a higher value? Of course she does. She’s doing it and it’s hard as hell. Other people have already litigated and relitigated the value so I won’t bother.

But it’s certainly not her fault they devalued the Prod because people kept chucking clearly dangerous ones aka one of the only times the FIG actually DID do something in the interest of safety.

 

[rlayt]

It’s really hard to compare vault difficulty by values when the FIG fiddles around to make some less desirable. It’s stupid that they do this to the women. Just value the vault’s difficulty and leave the responsibility of valuing safety to the coach and athlete. Yes there will be accidents and injuries but don’t treat the women differently than the men.

 

[Doug1233]

What would you say if Suni came out and complained that Wolf Turns we’re undervalued?

“A quarter of my beam/floor is wolf turns. It’s not fair, they want me to lose.”

I would tell her to shush, too.

 

[Puffin]

It’s really hard to compare vault difficulty by values when the FIG fiddles around to make some less desirable. It’s stupid that they do this to the women. Just value the vault’s difficulty and leave the responsibility of valuing safety to the coach and athlete. Yes there will be accidents and injuries but don’t treat the women differently than the men.

I think that FIG do need to weigh athlete safety into rating decisions. In many cases coaches (and often underage athlete) do not always make sensible decisions - especially in poorly funded programs when program funding is based on making EF/medals. When the Prodnova was a 7.0 it was relatively easy to score 15.00 without landing on feet.

I honestly thought that Yamilet Pena was going to kill herself attempting Prodnovas - the one she landed flat on her back and scored 0.0 was especially scary. I never saw her landing one cleanly in all of those years she competed them, she could land on her butt and make EF. I’m glad that the FIG took action in this case.

 

[rlayt]

I think it is patronizing to adult women to tell them what they can be and cannot do for skill selection. As the sport trends to older athletes I say let them decide. Use the JO Code to limit skills.

The problem is lack of education, good coaching and certification which is something we know USAG needs to do more about.

 

[Doug1233]

The problem is the judges inability to use deductions that are clearly there. Chucking skills should be so prohibitive to the E Score that no coach in their right mind would put it in front of a judge if it wasn’t safe.

Giving 8s to these cannonball double fronts is the reason why we saw them.

 

[rlayt]

@Doug1233 i so so agree.

 

[glamafonic]

What would you say if Suni came out and complained that Wolf Turns we’re undervalued?

“A quarter of my beam/floor is wolf turns. It’s not fair, they want me to lose.”

I would tell her to shush, too.

Now you know that is a wildly disingenuous false equivalence.

And where did Simone say of the YDP that they want her to lose? All she’s ever said about the YDP is that they wanted higher, but it is what it is and they’re not going to fight it.