Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[onodian]

Well we’re rehassing it. Get on board MC

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I think this is stupid. The IOC was willing to ban South Africa for decades. It’s all about money. That’s why the IOC does close to nothing when it comes to Russia, or even China. Probably even US to an extent regarding Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[MaryClare]

There is your answer. The IOC has done nothing in the last 30 years to exclude aggressive regimes. If they start with Russia, it is not only hugely hypocritical but it plays into Putin’s narrative of “the west hates us”.

The issue of state sponsored doping is a separate one. I have called for a complete ban on Russia competing for years. But you can’t just go oh you invaded another country and we probably should have already banned you anyway.

As corrupt as the IOC is, I don’t believe it’s all about money. Russia is a fairly insignificant country when it comes to the prolific Olympic sports. When was the last time a Russian athlete became a world wide name through Olympic success?

 

[MaryClare]

For gymnastics, the Asian Games in insignificant. It’s the Asian Gymnastics Championships that’s the Olympic qualifier.

The Asian Games invitation is China being China

 

[makam]

The IOC has done nothing in the last 30 years to exclude aggressive regimes. If they start with Russia, it is not only hugely hypocritical but it plays into Putin’s narrative of “the west hates us”.

It could be about setting a new precident or turning over a new leaf to not be terrible, but we know they haven’t and won’t. But every despot claims that “everyone hates us for being so great” and “the world is against us” because us vs them works great for shoring up support. Just look at the US. Our despot-wannabees have convinced a portion of the country that equality and inclusion are bad and drag queens are the harbingers of the apocalypse or some shit. Give poor, stupid, and/or hateful people a boogeyman to hate and they love you for making them feel superior to someone.

Putin is playing an old game and if it wasn’t “the west” it would be someone or something else. Weren’t there supposed to be nazis in Ukraine that they needed liberating from? Im sure they feel real liberated with their buildings and infrastructure bombed to pieces and their friends and families killed.

 

[MaryClare]

You are incredibly naive if you think that it’s poor, stupid or hateful people that are susceptible to propaganda.

If anything, support for the government here (Russia) tends to be higher amongst higher earning, educated groups.

You do not have “despot wanabes” in the US. Not even close.

 

[irichluck21]

Russia and Belarus competing at Asian Games has nothing to do with the IOC and they have no jurisdiction over it.
Asian Games is an independent multi sport event run by the Asian Games Federation (AGF) and nothing to do with the Olympics or Olympic qualifying.

@lspatterson I merged the other thread with this thread as there is no need for a separate thread, discussion about this is already in this thread, and the IOC is not “allowing” Russia or Belarus to compete at any event yet, they still haven’t made up their mind.

If independent federations like the AGF invite Russians and Belarussians to compete there is nothing they can do.
While the IOC has mentioned they would like the two countries to be able to compete in qualifiers for the Olympics, they have no lifted the ban itself, so for now both countries are barred from the Olympics.

 

[JDB]

The OCA must’ve seen how Russia ruined the fun for figure skaters in Beijing and decided they wanted in on that.

 

[JaJa]

Am I alone in thinking that maybe the answer is to just separate politics completely from international sporting events? I mean wasn’t that the idea originally? And is there not some virtue in this?

 

[MaryClare]

Absolutely. If countries want to take a stand, they can boycott, as various countries have done so in the past. Sport has been so pivotal to breaking down barriers in the past, and now it is being weaponised, so that people can feel like they are taking a stand

 

[rlayt]

maybe the answer is to just separate politics completely from international sporting events?

How do you stop it though? If Putin uses athletes to promote his invasion what can you do to him? How do you stop that? Simple statements not to politicize it can’t be enforced without penalties.

 

[MaryClare]

You can’t stop it. Just as during the Cold War, the Soviet Union used sporting achievements to promote the regime. But what happens at the actual olympics, Putin cannot control. It’s even possible to suspend ROC officials whilst permitting athletes to compete.

If sports governing bodies and the IOC actually thought about things, they could take a stance in a constructive way that would massively annoy Putin and may even make him boycott.

So, most sports have not had Russian participation in nearly a year. Imagine if instead of banning, those sports had decided to play the Ukrainian anthem and use the Ukrainian flag any time a Russian athlete was on the podium.

My grandfather was a boxer and then boxing trainer. He travelled to many countries from 60s-80s and experienced things and met different people that meant he had a different outlook on the world than what the soviet propaganda machine told him to believe. Sport made a huge difference in changing attitudes.

 

[JaJa]

How do you stop it though? If Putin uses athletes to promote his invasion what can you do to him? How do you stop that? Simple statements not to politicize it can’t be enforced without penalties.

This war is not going to be won or lost or ended through international sports. That’s for the military and for the diplomats. But I do think it is probably important to keep sports as a neutral zone, where athletes can compete and get to know one another. MaryClare’s example of her grandfather is instructive.

 

[MaryClare]

It is now as difficult for Russians to travel to non allied countries as it was during the soviet era. The difference now is it is not our government preventing us, but other countries who won’t grant visas.

If they think it’s oligarch vacations and business trips they are preventing, they are wrong. Most of them have dual nationality and are unaffected. It’s ordinary middle class Russians who are being kept at home, and more importantly, 10,000s of Russian students who had been due to attend university in other countries, but now cannot get visas.

I am conscious of keeping things gymnastics/sports related. But if anyone does wish to discuss the situation here in Russia, please do message me

 

[rlayt]

No the war won’t be won or lost by sport decisions but it’s better for the rest of us and especially the Ukrainians to keep Russia out of sports right now.

The IOC would be taking a stand and politicizing and event if they decided to play another nation’s anthem or show another nation’s flag during the awarding of Russian medals. There’s no way to stop it from being politicized one way or another.

Yes travel expands horizons. Then people go back home and live the same thing and go back to participating in the same old beliefs. Look at how many places the Russian gymnasts have been and yet they profess the same old Russian propaganda.

Let’s just accept we all have different opinions and may want the same thing but think there are different ways to get there.

 

[JaJa]

Let’s just accept we all have different opinions and may want the same thing but think there are different ways to get there.

for sure!!

 

[Gymfan93]

Looks like no Russia or Belarus at Euros is confirmed. So unless they can compete at the Asian qualifier, no worlds and no Olympics as a team either

 

[Doug1233]

This whole Asian thing, particularly for Belarus, is just fucking outrageous.

 

[MaryClare]

I was surprised myself that joining Asia is an option for Belarus, but apparently all former soviet countries have the choice of Europe or Asia.

Under different circumstances it would be a legitimate debate for Russia, and has been for a number of years.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

That surprised me too. I can see that the countries who are in two continents would have a choice, but not otherwise. Obviously that would still leave us with this particular issue since Russia clearly have territory in both Europe and Asia and they’re the problem here.