REWIND : WEEK SEVEN 04/11 : 2015 World Championships EF

[MaryClare]

All kinds of crazy shit happened. Maria Paseka becoming world vault champion, everyone becoming world bars champion. “This title really could be anybody’s. There are several gymnasts all with the same start value”, as Beth Tweddle said before the event.

It also occurred to me, as crazy as it sounds, but Simone wasn’t all that great on vault in her early career! She didn’t become world vault champion until 2018!

Here’s the BBC coverage, featuring the irreplaceable Mitch Fenner in his final competition as a commentator before he died. His enthusiasm for the sport was infectious. He expressed such joy for great gymnastics, regardless of the gymnast’s country. He had a very rare talent amongst gymnastics commentators, he was engaging and could tell the story. But he was also extremely informative and good at explaining the more technical aspects of the sport.



And day 2 (unfortunately couldn’t find the bbc coverage)

 

[RedBirdie]

2013-2016 Simone was all about the pacing. Aimee clearly had her difficulty watered down, going for execution over difficulty-for-difficulty's-sake. And I'd say it worked, because Simone just rolled up the next year with a really nice Cheng and won gold. (her Cheng, imo, has declined in quality ever since)

 

[MaryClare]

2013-2016 Simone was all about the pacing. Aimee clearly had her difficulty watered down, going for execution over difficulty-for-difficulty's-sake. And I'd say it worked, because Simone just rolled up the next year with a really nice Cheng and won gold. (her Cheng, imo, has declined in quality ever since)

Yeah, I’ll always be in awe of Aimee’s patience and restraint. Especially in the Martha era

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I was there!

 

[Passion]

Yeah, I’ll always be in awe of Aimee’s patience and restraint. Especially in the Martha era

Wasn’t Marta typically pro-watering down? She was generally pretty risk-averse.

 

[MaryClare]

Wasn’t Marta typically pro-watering down? She was generally pretty risk-averse.

She definitely was not pro watering down, she was pro endless repetition of difficulty packed routines. And she definitely didn’t care about pacing or the career trajectories of individual gymnasts. Even in 2021, Suni Lee felt that having a 3 pass routine was a sign of weakness, even if it scored higher!

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

2013-2016 Simone was all about the pacing. Aimee clearly had her difficulty watered down, going for execution over difficulty-for-difficulty's-sake. And I'd say it worked, because Simone just rolled up the next year with a really nice Cheng and won gold. (her Cheng, imo, has declined in quality ever since)

I feel like Aimee does not get enough credit for how amazing a job she did with Simone in the Rio quad. She was supremely paced, everything was controlled, and she always worked to fix execution errors. So much of the detail work she did with Simone that you could clearly see went out the window with the Landis.

 

[Passion]

She definitely was not pro watering down, she was pro endless repetition of difficulty packed routines. And she definitely didn’t care about pacing or the career trajectories of individual gymnasts. Even in 2021, Suni Lee felt that having a 3 pass routine was a sign of weakness, even if it scored higher!

She did cut skills out of gymnasts’ routines if she felt they weren’t going to hit. Shantessa Pama’s triple back off UB, Liukin’s beam mount, running mounts in general.

 

[JaJa]

2013-2016 Simone was all about the pacing. Aimee clearly had her difficulty watered down, going for execution over difficulty-for-difficulty's-sake. And I'd say it worked, because Simone just rolled up the next year with a really nice Cheng and won gold. (her Cheng, imo, has declined in quality ever since)

Aimee understood Simone both as a gymnast and a person. She worked with her brilliantly

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

This was also the first ever GB MAG world title, so that was a moment. Honestly, that first day was just one thing after another.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

If we were on reddit, this would've spiralled into a Maria Paseka, technique v execution debate by now.

I'm always surprised by the number of people on the gymternet who think Hong Un Jong was robbed. Personally I think Simone was unluckier, possibly not according the code but in a more overarching way. It's not a problem that a gymnast with proper technique and worse execution beat one with poor technique but nicer leg form. Whereas Simone did genuinely show mastery of her Lopez. It's easier to argue that a proper code would allow her to beat Paseka than it is to argue for a Hong Un Jong win.

 

[RAFIKI]

It's been a week so I'm only just getting to this.

Arena/format

• Glasgow really was a trendsetter when it comes to the theatrical arena style. It built on the way British Championships are presented and made everything bigger. I quite like the dark audience and lit field of play, however it's ridiculous this has been taken to the extremes of Brum WC and the Swiss cup.
• My eyes will always struggle with pink and red.
• I couldn't help but wonder what future gymfans will think about these weird hashtag things all over the FOP.
• This was the competition that had lights at the side of the floor to indicate OOB. Much better than having to remember to look over at the judging panel in Paris.
• I'm very glad that EF touch warm ups are back, but I do like going straight through all eight finalists without a break in the middle. FIG over-compensated from safety concerns not mattering by going straight through to mid-EF warm ups rather than a single one touch warm up a la 96.

Commentary/coverage

• Matt Baker annoys the heck out of me commentary-wise, but he is very good in the studio (all that Blue Peter presenter training).
• What is it with Brits and "definitely"? Beth is often a culprit but Keatings was getting in on the act here.
• The cardboard scorecard was a really cheap and weird moment. Why not trust the commentators to explain that? They do it all the time and much more efficiently.
• Go back to 90s/00s coverage and see how calm and quiet Still is with her coverage. Here she's part way through her transition to constant high excitement and volume.
• I smiled at Fenner's generosity calling Paseka's Cheng "a little untidy".
• Completely agree with Still about the intrusive spotting of CHN coaches on UB. The verbal coaching was another inadvertent consequence of moving judges off the FOP.
• Still again on UB: "[will be] tough to pick the difference between these gymnasts" No kidding! Loved the reactions of gymnasts, coaches, crowd and commentators to such an absurd result. I appreciated Still pointing out that it was partly because the routines were so similar. Harrold's routine was a breath of fresh air and the audience reaction to her Zuchold was magic.

Gymnasts

• Sometimes I think Simone hasn't changed much physically over the years, then I see how young she looks in her first quad.
• This is a such a decorated GB team. The competing TF gymnasts were all future world or Olympic individual medalists with the exception of Harrold (who was no slouch, making every WC final this quad and coming 11th AA in 2014). I remember all the rumours about Downie and TInkler training Amanars and wondering who would be the first Brit to compete one, didn't expect it to take as long as it did.
• Sad to see all the promise Ellie had back then, another gymnast who had a great individual career (full set of Euro AA medals plus world bronze on VT) but still could have done more. I never loved any of her floor routines as a whole but a fantastic DDS here. Also thought that she gave a pretty decent interview for a first year senior.
• Paseka's patch looked quite precarious and Thorsdottir's lotto sponsor one was pretty obnoxious.
• Komova's UB score reaction never gets old. Nice to see it in its full glory here.
• Interesting to compare Wever's BB with her Rio winning routine. I remember Denn praising her upgrades (particularly mount/dismount)in the run up to Rio and saying that no one could say her routine wasn't deserving of an Olympic title with the upgraded acro. I love Wevers and her notebook as much as anyone but I don't think we needed an action replay!
• I'm in the minority that liked Simone's barani. It was the centrepiece and made her routine stand out. That said, I prefer her latter beamwork overall. This is my favourite floor routine of her early career but a lot of that is because I know and like the music. Her vocal trademark fits this one better than most.
• Some amusing height disparities at this comp. Komova towering over Tutkhalyan and Downie over Fragapane made me grin. Even SCS was taller than Fragapane!
• I'd forgotten the sheer speed of Fragapane on FX.

Gymnastics

• This WC doesn't feel that long ago. That's partly middle age and pandemic time perception continually surprising me; but it's also that so many of these gymnasts are still around or have competed very recently. Nevertheless, the E scores are wildly high compared to what we're used to and they make this feel even longer ago than it actually is.
• I know we still complain about this but boy the non-existent E score separation on VT is painful. Downie's Lopez vs Paseka's Cheng is particulary egregious. Good to see the mastery of Biles being rewarded, but those scores only work in isolation.
• CHN BB choreo feels like ROM UB from 90s to 00s. Everyone could see it was a weakness but it took multiple COP for it to be penalised.
• Was this the start of truly splatfest BB EFs or did it start earlier?
• Discounting the big COP differences, what's the highest FX score in an international competition under the open code? Without googling I think Biles's FX winning 15.8 would be second to Cheng Fei's 15.875 in 2006 EF. Anything higher?
• Does anyone remember the gymternet's feelings about the FX results? Less than 0.2 between four gymnast is uber close and I'd be interested in our judging panel's opinions. I enjoyed this floor final a lot, great variety of routines and no disasters.

Nostalgia/personal

• Watching this made me realise that I inadvertently pinched a bit of Komova's BB choreography for my current BB routine.
• I was at this worlds and it is in my top three. However it is one where I don't have many memories from the arena because I've rewatched it so many times and those thoughts have taken over. I have a clear memory from WAG TF when GB won bronze though. After RUS went on FX I thought there was a possibility of it happening but when it did I was just overcome. When I got hooked on gymnastics in the 90s I never imagined British Gymnastics climbing so far. I was bawling so hard that the randoms behind me asked if I wanted a photo. I wasn't in a fit state but I obligingly held my flag up and looked an absolute mess.

MAG (only watched FX and a certain two PH routines)

• Nice to see non wonky ROs again.
• Smith is one of those gymnasts who had a great career but who also has reason to be a bit bitter with results always favouring his competitor (2012 Berki qualification saga and an eventual broken tie for gold, being so close to Whitlock in 2015 [0.1] and 2016 [0.133]).
• Fenner was just so proud that GB had turned PH from a weakness into a strength. It breaks my heart that he didn't see the Rio success but at least he saw the team medals here.

 

[Snowfan]

In regards to team finals here. I have always been bothered by the reaction of the Russians. Why weren't they fuming or at least depressed. At the end they were all happy with fourth after 4 falls? There attitude and demeanor seems so un-russian. What was up with that?

 

[MaryClare]

In regards to team finals here. I have always been bothered by the reaction of the Russians. Why weren't they fuming or at least depressed. At the end they were all happy with fourth after 4 falls? There attitude and demeanor seems so un-russian. What was up with that?

It is an extremely Russian reaction.

Khorkina is the team leader. She is angry and disappointed in her own performance and probably feels partly responsible for the team’s overall performance. In a moment of heightened emotion, she removes her medal. And because she is the leader, the rest of team follow. Like little (ex) Soviet sheep. I don’t believe there was any dispute about the actual scoring.

It contrasts greatly with Khorkina’s behaviour on the team final podium in Athens. Smiling and fixing the crowns of her team mates. They were extremely happy to get bronze, after the disastrous 7th place at the 2003 team final.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

It is an extremely Russian reaction.

Khorkina is the team leader. She is angry and disappointed in her own performance and probably feels partly responsible for the team’s overall performance. In a moment of heightened emotion, she removes her medal. And because she is the leader, the rest of team follow. Like little (ex) Soviet sheep. I don’t believe there was any dispute about the actual scoring.

It contrasts greatly with Khorkina’s behaviour on the team final podium in Athens. Smiling and fixing the crowns of her team mates. They were extremely happy to get bronze, after the disastrous 7th place at the 2003 team final.

This is the 2015 thread. I think you've just seen Russian fuck up and defaulted to Sydney, which is understandable. While they didn't fall as much as in Glasgow, 00 was a purer fail.

04 is always an interesting one though. So seldom that Russia overachieve. Even when they've won, it's almost always been theirs to lose. I think it's just Athens and possibly Tokyo where they've done better than they ought to on paper.

 

[MaryClare]

This is the 2015 thread. I think you've just seen Russian fuck up and defaulted to Sydney, which is understandable. While they didn't fall as much as in Glasgow, 00 was a purer fail.

04 is always an interesting one though. So seldom that Russia overachieve. Even when they've won, it's almost always been theirs to lose. I think it's just Athens and possibly Tokyo where they've done better than they ought to on paper.

Hahaha Yes I did. I don’t even remember anything happening in 2015?

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Russia finished 4th, having qualified 2nd. They fell 4 times and still only missed bronze by a couple of tenths. But it was actually quite funny. They'd probably still have come 3rd if Afan, the last routine of the day, hadn't skidded her floor landings. They all stood there grinning as she walked off. There was something mesmerisingly chaotic about it all.

I think also it does make a difference that they were never going to be anywhere near the US regardless. Losing silver because of being useless doesn't have quite the same snap.