FIG ends ban on Russia and Belarus gymnasts (effective January 1, 2024)

[ArnoldRimmer]

They can enter, as all entries are provisional. The athlete would need to be cleared prior to the competition. It’s the same procedure as happened earlier this year with Nemour. Algeria would enter her for competitions whilst waiting for her clearance to come through, which only did a few days before African championships

Oh, it’ll be a Nemour mark 2 setup? Keep us entertained in the off season I suppose.

 

[MaryClare]

Oh, it’ll be a Nemour mark 2 setup? Keep us entertained in the off season I suppose.

No, I doubt it. The Nemour situation was caused by France being obnoxious and was very public. I just meant the process of entering currently ineligible gymnasts is the same.

We won’t know who, if any, will apply for neutral status unless the athletes or federations go public. Obviously if names start appearing on provisional entry lists, that is a big clue. But for unsuccessful applications, we won’t know who or on what grounds. Unlikely to be entertaining, and the overwhelming majority of applicants will be from the non Olympic disciplines.

 

[makam]

No, I doubt it. The Nemour situation was caused by France being obnoxious and was very public. I just meant the process of entering currently ineligible gymnasts is the same.

We won’t know who, if any, will apply for neutral status unless the athletes or federations go public. Obviously if names start appearing on provisional entry lists, that is a big clue. But for unsuccessful applications, we won’t know who or on what grounds. Unlikely to be entertaining, and the overwhelming majority of applicants will be from the non Olympic disciplines.

…so, if the point is that the athletes have to be separate from the country’s government, could a gymnast with Russian or Belarusian citizenship that lives in say the UK or US register? Like could Nastia register with her Russian citizenship even though she is not on the Russian national team?

(just thinking that if you were, like, Alaina Kwan and had this Belarusian citizenship sitting around, doing nothing, and were still interested in gymnastics, maybe you might like to go for an Olympic spot, cuz why not?)

 

[MaryClare]

…so, if the point is that the athletes have to be separate from the country’s government, could a gymnast with Russian or Belarusian citizenship that lives in say the UK or US register? Like could Nastia register with her Russian citizenship even though she is not on the Russian national team?

(just thinking that if you were, like, Alaina Kwan and had this Belarusian citizenship sitting around, doing nothing, and were still interested in gymnastics, maybe you might like to go for an Olympic spot, cuz why not?)

Yes, country of residence isn’t relevant, the criteria is the same. Irina Alexeeva could register as a neutral athlete for Russia since there would be no issue regarding her eligibility. However, had Artur Dalaloyan remained in Italy and trained there on a permanent basis at an Italian club, he would not be eligible for neutral status due to his actions.

There’s no restriction whatsoever on athletes who train in Russia but represent other countries. Very much a thing in RG, not currently in WAG although Maria Kharenkova trained in Russia and represented Georgia until quite recently. She could get a Z tattoo, sponsor a drone and become a government official in Russia. Yet still be eligible to represent Georgia as she has dual nationality.

Oksana Chusovitina has participated in pro war content, presumably paid to do so, but as she doesn’t represented Russia or Belarus, there’s no restriction on her doing so. But a teenager turning senior next year who happens to train at an army sports club, will be completely ineligible.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

No, I doubt it. The Nemour situation was caused by France being obnoxious and was very public. I just meant the process of entering currently ineligible gymnasts is the same.

We won’t know who, if any, will apply for neutral status unless the athletes or federations go public. Obviously if names start appearing on provisional entry lists, that is a big clue. But for unsuccessful applications, we won’t know who or on what grounds. Unlikely to be entertaining, and the overwhelming majority of applicants will be from the non Olympic disciplines.

Sorry no, should’ve been clearer I meant the deadline watching part. Like ooh, 7 days to go and they’ve not decided, 6 days to go and they’ve not decided etc.

 

[MaryClare]

Sorry no, should’ve been clearer I meant the deadline watching part. Like ooh, 7 days to go and they’ve not decided, 6 days to go and they’ve not decided etc.

No, I’d be very surprised if we get that level of information. We also won’t necessarily know when a name appears on entries if that athlete already has neutral status or is still hoping to be granted it.

As I said, little of this will apply to the Olympic disciplines so unless you enjoy Russian acrobatics, there will be little drama to follow.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

No, I’d be very surprised if we get that level of information. We also won’t necessarily know when a name appears on entries if that athlete already has neutral status or is still hoping to be granted it.

As I said, little of this will apply to the Olympic disciplines so unless you enjoy Russian acrobatics, there will be little drama to follow.

Aw how disappointing!

 

[Sanzhirovka]

It looks very much like no Russian gymnasts at all will participate as “neutral light blue athletes”.

Run these through Google Translate: Титов: решение о выступлении в нейтральном статусе будут принимать сами гимнасты

Key quote by Titov: ““Принимать решение об участии в нейтральном статусе будут сами спортсмены, кто теоретически сможет соответствовать условиям нейтральности. При этом будет важна позиция каждой российской федерации по отдельным гимнастическим дисциплинам”, - подчеркнул Титов.”

“Decisions to participate with neutral status will be made by the athletes themselves, by the ones who theoretically can meet the criteria of neutrality. At the same time, the position of each gymnastics discipline under the Russian Federation will be important”, Titov strresed.

And from Valentina Rodionenko we have the position of artistic gymnastics: Тренерский штаб сборной выступил против возвращения российских гимнастов на условиях FIG

“Мы не согласны ни с одним из критериев допуска, которые выработала FIG, - сказала Родионенко. - Пока международная федерация не внесет изменения в свой документ, спортсменов отправлять на старты мы не будем. Это решение тренерского штаба сборной”.

"We do not agree with one single criteria for participation that was drafted by the FIG - Rodionenko said, “As long as the international federation does not amend its document, we will not send atheltes to competitions. That is the decision of the national team coaching staff”.

So, great news overall!

 

[Sasha]

That’s … too bad.

(I mean, it is on a gymnastics/competition level, but I’m feeling salty.)

 

[rlayt]

That’s too bad

 

[Alinxz23]

I wonder if Melnikova and Listunova will go ahead and retire.

 

[MaryClare]

I wonder if Melnikova and Listunova will go ahead and retire.

Why would they do that?

 

[irichluck21]

I wonder if Melnikova and Listunova will go ahead and retire.

They will still be able to compete domestically, and other countries will begin to allow them to compete, like Italy, Turkey, etc.

 

[makam]

Why would they do that?

Are they wanting yo get married and have a baby? Melnikova is definitely at the age that her peers probably are, right?

 

[MaryClare]

Are they wanting yo get married and have a baby? Melnikova is definitely at the age that her peers probably are, right?

She might, but I doubt this is a factor in that.

You all realise they are getting the same salary and benefits whether they compete internationally or not?

 

[Denn]

I think the below is an extremely relevant point. I think that young people should be excused for anything they did before turning 18 and being responsible for their own actions.

Chusovitina has participated in pro war content, presumably paid to do so, but as she doesn’t represented Russia or Belarus, there’s no restriction on her doing so. But a teenager turning senior next year who happens to train at an army sports club, will be completely ineligible.

 

[MaryClare]

I think the below is an extremely relevant point. I think that young people should be excused for anything they did before turning 18 and being responsible for their own actions.

In most cases, they haven’t actually done anything. If you are turning senior next year, you were likely 13 years old in February 2022. You’ve never voiced any sort of support for military activity in Ukraine, but the gym you train at is run by the army sports club so you’re ineligible.

In my experience, people in Russia who have participated in sports at a high level have a much more tolerant, outward view of the world than the average Russian.

This cuts across all ages. From those now in their 70s who competed during the peak years of the Cold War, to young people today who are growing in a far more alienated country than their parents did. In my opinion, the reason for this is the exposure to other people and other cultures through travel.

Take for instance, Angelina Melnikova. She follows Simone (and some other US gymnasts) on instagram. Think about the sort of content she is consuming as a result of that. Those friendship links were made through being at competitions together.

Specifically to the incident I think @Denn refers to, where Urazova and Listunova attended a pro war rally whilst under 18. Not only were they children but we don’t know how much freedom they had to refuse to do it. It is no surprise to me that Akhaimova and Melnikova who are older and from middle class families were not there whilst the two teenagers from blue collar families were. The government effectively owns them.

I understand why some people are gleeful that there is unlikely to Russian gymnasts competing internationally. But I think they are very wrong.

 

[Rich]

In most cases, they haven’t actually done anything. If you are turning senior next year, you were likely 13 years old in February 2022. You’ve never voiced any sort of support for military activity in Ukraine, but the gym you train at is run by the army sports club so you’re ineligible.

In my experience, people in Russia who have participated in sports at a high level have a much more tolerant, outward view of the world than the average Russian.

This cuts across all ages. From those now in their 70s who competed during the peak years of the Cold War, to young people today who are growing in a far more alienated country than their parents did. In my opinion, the reason for this is the exposure to other people and other cultures through travel.

Take for instance, Angelina Melnikova. She follows Simone (and some other US gymnasts) on instagram. Think about the sort of content she is consuming as a result of that. Those friendship links were made through being at competitions together.

Specifically to the incident I think refers to, where Urazova and Listunova attended a pro war rally whilst under 18. Not only were they children but we don’t know how much freedom they had to refuse to do it. It is no surprise to me that Akhaimova and Melnikova who are older and from middle class families were not there whilst the two teenagers from blue collar families were. The government effectively owns them.

I understand why some people are gleeful that there is unlikely to Russian gymnasts competing internationally. But I think they are very wrong.

Interesting. I think not wanting to have russian gymnasts have more to punish putin who values olympic medals and atheletes. He is getting away with everything in Ukraine and I am happy at anything that would hurt his pride. If he was not into top atheletes I would be happy to have them compete. But to have a state sponosored drug program for atheletes goes beyond caring. It is very important to him. I do not know how else to make him a little accountable for his atrocious actions.

 

[MaryClare]

Interesting. I think not wanting to have russian gymnasts have more to punish putin who values olympic medals and atheletes. He is getting away with everything in Ukraine and I am happy at anything that would hurt his pride. If he was not into top atheletes I would be happy to have them compete. But to have a state sponosored drug program for atheletes goes beyond caring. It is very important to him. I do not know how else to make him a little accountable for his atrocious actions.

Putin doesn’t care about the Olympics anything like as much as people in the west think he does. It’s a tool to assert Russia’s dominance and currently it’s a tool he doesn’t really need. It doesn’t punish Putin, it punishes the athletes and serves as vindication of what we are told about the west. I teach 8-11 year old girls who often ask me questions of what it’s like in England. Unfortunately it’s now increasingly common that they ask why do English people hate Russians.

On a personal level, the sheer amount of relatively obscure international judo contests that are televised and subsequent re run on national television here, suggests that he’s pretty interested

 

[RedBirdie]

I remember his judo obsession, and the seemingly miraculous ability of people from his St. Petersburg judo club to find themselves in important offices and/or turn into millionaires, being a hot topic of conversation way back in grad school.