EF day 2 euros

[Doug1233]

Is the Heduit fall bad? If yes, what element is it on so I can avoid it? Thanks!

ETA: For anyone with injury phobia, avoid the UFC this weekend. Holeeee ffffffff.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

It’s the first tumbling pass. Live is not so bad. I mean you know it’s not good, and she does a few dance-ish steps afterwards before she just stops and so you are, gee, ouch? She is still walking, but is she okay?

But do not watch the slo-mo replay of it. You’ll cringe and be all “yeah, fuck, that was bad”. Like on the edge of very, very bad.

 

[Doug1233]

Thank you for letting me know.

It’s interesting because she got a 9.566 E Score. So we can see that the 3 counting judges gave her 0.4, 0.4 and 0.5 off. She then got an 8.5 neutral deduction.

I don’t know what the deal is with taking artistry deductions for a short exercise. I seem to recall that even the judges themselves don’t really know what to do - when Catalina Escobar Gomez did a short exercise in Rio Prelims (her final score was 3.7), her Artistry deductions were 0.4, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 and then by the Reference Judges 0.3, 0.3. So clearly even the Olympic Brevets didn’t know what to do.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

Artistry in such cases is more than likely a moot point. But I can ask, if you like!

 

[Doug1233]

Totally moot. But would be super interesting to find out - yes please!

 

[Doug1233]

Likewise, when Jade Barbosa stopped after her second tumbling line, her Artistry deductions were 0.0, 0.0, 0.3, 0.1, 0.3, and by the Reference Judges, 0.0 and 0.0.

Clearly there wasn’t a memo on this before the meet.

 

[Dex]

They cannot leave Morgan at home, to be honest she brings more value to the GB team than Beckie does. OK becky has a GREAT bar set but that is it… If one of the GB teammates gets injured, she is not an addition at all. Right now I would say
Jen
Jes
Alli D
Morgan

Same goed for the Dutch team.
Sanne is great! She, however does not bring anything into the team besides a good BB routine, maybe bars if needed.
For the Dutch team I would say:
Naomi
Lieke
Eythora
Either Elze Geurts or Vera van Pol
If one gets injured either Ilze or Vera bring more to the team than Sanne.
Sanne should have taken the individual route…

Though I am sure the Dutch team will be Sanne, Lieke, Eythora and Naomi, if all are healthy.

 

[Doug1233]

There’s definitely an argument there. BUT - one needs to decide whether the chance of Becky medalling in EF is more or less than the chance of GB medalling in TF.

British Gymnastics’ funding is based on medals. I think the chance of EF medals (Ellie on VT, Becky on bars, and maybe even the Gadirova girls on FX) for GB is higher than the TF chance.

They don’t have the benefit of choosing a back-up gymnast “in case” there’s an injury. GB has to go shit or bust here.

However, in all likelihood one of the Downie/Gadirova girls will be injured, so it’s likely a moot point.

 

[Livi]

While I do get what you are saying, the Dutch aren’t going to leave a fair chance of a medal at home, for a possible chance of getting a sixth place in team finals. GB is on another level, I agree that they have some serious chances of medalling in the team final. But for the Netherlands, that is just a step too far.

I also think the team will be Sanne, Lieke, Eythora and Naomi.

 

[blake]

All these isolated front 1/1s feels like 1993, at least punch a front tuck/pike out of it, goddamn. I hope the series pass requirement comes back next quad.

Cool for Ferrari to come back so soon after the achilles tear and win an FX medal, but I will never forgive her for unleashing the horror that is a tourjete with ring upon the world.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I’m not sure about Becky bringing less value than Amelie. That bars set is potentially into the 15s, and a GB team without her would almost certainly have to count a low to mid 13 Gadirova bars in TFs. It will depend a lot on the injury situation in July.

There’s also the individual hardware point, as Doug states. GB are in a weird position where they have loads of realistic medal prospects but no shoo ins. There is no event in which I would be surprised to see them get bronze, and no event in which I would be surprised to see them get nothing.

Usually the way the funding targets work, they’re supposed to win a medal. There are finals specifications too, but also hardware. They’ll be better off winning one bronze and coming 8th in TFs than winning nothing and coming 4th as a team.

And Becky is a reigning world silver medallist. GB are not really in a position where the coaches can be confident enough to leave out decorated athletes like that. As much as anything it’s covering their backs. If they do leave with nothing, which they might, it’s going to be easier to defend leaving out Amelie than the second best in the world on something. If you’re a selector and having to justify your decisions to funders, arsey journalists etc, you’re going to feel on more solid ground if you can say what else could I do, I sent the cavalry, how could I leave out the world silver medallist than you are explaining why you wanted to drop one of the most decorated gymnasts in British history for someone who won a bars bronze at Euros.

This is before we consider that Becky has been speaking out against abuse recently, so the optics of dropping her look even worse. If I were in charge I’d want a very good reason not to take her.

 

[Doug1233]

If Becky is not injured, and is reliably hitting that 6.8 bars routine, she will get put on the main team even irrespective of her beam routine.

The Gadirova twins and Ellie have VT, BB and FX completely sewn up.

 

[irichluck21]

Pretty much this.

They could put Becky up as anchor on every event. Defintely do UB and BB (in case they need her for TF) and she could scratch FX/VT if the other 3 hit before her, since she won’t be used in TF.

Also Becky has her DTY back so that is a viable option and at worst case could downgrade to a FTY. Her FX isn’t high in D score but she does max out on E score as much as possible. Either way it is a different situation than say a Ashton Locklear who didn’t train FX/VT

 

[tempest]

All these isolated front 1/1s feels like 1993, at least punch a front tuck/pike out of it, goddamn. I hope the series pass requirement comes back next quad

I’m having a brain cramp, what is the series pass requirement?

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

The requirement of having two connected flight skills in a single tumbling pass. Melnikova, for example, is doing a DLO 1/1, DLO, front full, and double pike–missing a connected tumbling run. It doesn’t need to be an immediate connection; a front tuck step out + double tuck satisfies that erstwhile requirement.

 

[irichluck21]

direct or indirect front and back saltos in one pass…right now he specific requirement is a front salto in one of the passes, you can no longer do a front aerial or front tuck as an isolated pass. It now counts as a pass.
So unless you do a front element (full like Melnikova) it needs to be included in a pass, (front to double tuck like Jessica Gadirova.

 

[tempest]

thank you! I guess I never knew the official name of the 2 salto pass requirement!

 

[blake]

Don’t worry, I also wasn’t sure what to call it. Series pass requirement is definitely not what it was called but I couldn’t think of the proper name either lol

I think they got rid of it for 13-16’ quad? All I know is FX tumbling has been pretty monotonous imo ever since they stopped requiring a combo pass. I feel like the revisions since the first open ended code have been a mixed bag. Limiting # of passes and removing the front aerial loophole were much needed changes, but emphasizing shit leaps/turns and removing the combo pass req. have kinda nullified any potential net gain in FX becoming an enjoyable event.

I’d rather dance skills on FX be judged on originality/virtuosity/level of integration into choreography rather than who can cram the most D spin combos and twisting ring leaps into their routine, but then I’m not a WTC member so what do I know about improving the sport lol

 

[Sanzhirovka]

Hey Doug, got a chance to talk with the Brevet 1 I know. She told me that deducting for artistry when a routine is cut really short should not happen.There should be an attempt at artistry in order to be able to deduct for it. That you cannot dedeuct for artistry if no real artistry has been attempted.

[What follows are my own remarks]. It would seem then that in Heduit’s routine there should not have been any artistry deduction. She only did one pass and whatever arm wave or toe point turn she did before the acro line is not enough to warrant a deducton for artistry. The E-jury could have (should have) deducted for the execution of anything that she did execute skill wise. It’s (thankfully) not burned into my mind what she did, but she probably took a 0.3 step at least. Maybe a flexed foot and you’ve got your 0.4 deductions. Maybe one of them saw “okay, underrotated, must be a 0.1 for height in there, too”.

OTOH, say a gymnast opens with few phrases of “awful” musical interpretation does a RO-double tuck (no BHS), then does a dance connection for CR, a bit more musical interpretation where she was clearly out of sync with the music and then does a simple run into a front double tuck, gets injured and stops after that.

She would have only four recognized skills, meaning a 6 point neutral deduction, but still could get atistry deductions as she had shown dance, etc.

Does rhat sound about right to you?

 

[Doug1233]

Amazing, thank you! So I guess the takeaway is that it’s still up to the judge to decide - whether the gymnast SHOULD have performed enough to get a deduction depending on where the routine gets stopped.

Thanks for checking - super helpful!