6 gymnasts are allowed to compete at Team Worlds

[Aeris]

China MAG used the rule this year - one person who competes in qualifying can be replaced for team final, and still get to do event finals (this year it was Shi Cong doing qualifying + event final, replaced by Lin Chaopan for team final). Has this ever been done before? I can’t find anyone who recalls it happening.

For countries that are in no danger of missing the team final in qualification (Japan, China, USA, Russia, GBR maybe), this can allow them to further prioritize individual event finals. Leave out your Grace McCallum in qualifying and have your Ashton Locklear compete there, and then bring McCallum in for team final if coverage on multiple events is desired. The downside is one of your gymnasts in team final doesn’t get practice in qualifying, but they could still do podium training.

Note how the replacement athlete can be anyone. Lin Chaopan was not the original named “alternate” for the Chinese MAG team. The qualification lineup doesn’t have to be set until 24 hours beforehand either. A country could bring 10+ gymnasts to worlds and let them all practice there (nobody is going to be kicking extra gymnasts out of the back gym, let’s be real) and then decide which 5 to use in qualifying and which one to sub into team final after seeing qualification results.

I hope this is used to maximum potential in the future, because I wish teams were already 6 people anyway. Sadly we have to wait until 2026 for it to be possible again.

 

[MaryClare]

This has always been the case at worlds. Alternates are part of podium training and are able to warm up in the back gym and then be on the competition floor with the team.

The US women could have used DiCello for team final if they wanted to. It’s the reason that alternates are included in team medals at worlds

 

[Aeris]

When has it happened before that someone who was replaced for the team event still competed in event finals? This is the first time, it seems like.

The US women (and every other country) could have used anyone as the alternate for team final if they wanted. The alternate doesn’t have to be a set person prior to Worlds starting. This possibility hasn’t been explored before. Countries could bring all their “valuable” gymnasts to Worlds and choose the best person to slot into team final, depending on what was lacking in qualification, and they can purposefully put a specialist in for qualifying and have that specialist move on to event finals, while replacing them with someone for the team final who adds more to the team score.

 

[MaryClare]

I don’t know why they don’t do so, but the possibility has always been there

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

There was a lot of speculation about whether the US would do this in 2015, when Dowell had a nightmare in prelims and Skinner would probably have bolstered their team total even just by vaulting. That’s one of the few occasions I can think of when it would’ve made obvious sense, but it still didnt happen. I think it probably isn’t that common for it to make even theoretical sense.

 

[irichluck21]

I didn’t realize there was this loop hole.
I knew alternates could be subbed in for team finals, but at the expense of an injured athlete.

I wonder if other countries didn’t know they could do this.

 

[MaryClare]

I didn’t realize there was this loop hole.
I knew alternates could be subbed in for team finals, but at the expense of an injured athlete.

I wonder if other countries didn’t know they could do this.

Anyone can be subbed in for team final, there doesn’t have to be a reason if it’s done prior to start lists being finalised. After that, it’s by request and there would have to be a compelling reason

 

[irichluck21]

Anyone can be subbed in for team final, there doesn’t have to be a reason if it’s done prior to start lists being finalised. After that, it’s by request and there would have to be a compelling reason

Then why not just go back to 6 member teams and call it a day?
LOL.

 

[MaryClare]

Then why not just go back to 6 member teams and call it a day?
LOL.

I agree. No reason why prelims can’t be 6-4-3 and TF 5-4-3 if they want to have TF be the same as Olympics.

 

[irichluck21]

Alternates are recognized at Worlds already, get to be out on the floor with the team, and get medals. Just make it make sense…but this is FIG.

 

[MaryClare]

Alternates are recognized at Worlds already, get to be out on the floor with the team, and get medals. Just make it make sense…but this is FIG.

It’s the other way round. The FIG doesnt recognise alternates. There’s no differentiation. They are able to compete and that’s why they get team medals, just like if the team decides to or had bench another athlete, as was the case this year for the US women.

 

[Aeris]

There was a lot of speculation about whether the US would do this in 2015, when Dowell had a nightmare in prelims and Skinner would probably have bolstered their team total even just by vaulting.

But that’s not the same thing. Dowell didn’t make any finals. She wouldn’t be replaced but then still get to keep competing after the team event. Skinner was also already the “named” alternate. Not an extra person brought in on top of the already “named” alternate during qualification.

 

[MaryClare]

But that’s not the same thing. Dowell didn’t make any finals. She wouldn’t be replaced but then still get to keep competing after the team event. Skinner was also already the “named” alternate. Not an extra person brought in on top of the already “named” alternate during qualification.

There is no such thing as a named alternate. The FIG doesn’t differentiate. They are included exactly the same with the rest of the team and with team medals. The FIG records don’t differentiate either when listing achievements. It is the national federations who choose not to utilise their 6th athlete.

The situation in 2015 was exactly the same. The fact that Dowell didn’t make any EFs is irrelevant. Even if she had, the US could have still benched her for TF, brought Skinner in then Dowell would have gone on to do her individual final.

 

[Aeris]

There is no such thing as a named alternate.

I know, that’s why I have it in quotes. But until now, every federation has been behaving like the alternate is set when Worlds starts and someone who gets replaced after qualifying would be completely done for the competition.

Since that’s not the case, hopefully federations will bring more gymnasts to Worlds. Officially choose the team the day before competing in qualifying, with the knowledge that you can still sub anyone else in for the team event. A specialist like Stephen Nedorscik could do qualifying and then someone like Colt Walker who doesn’t have any individual medal potential, but does have a helpful AA, can be brought into the team event.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

But that’s not the same thing. Dowell didn’t make any finals. She wouldn’t be replaced but then still get to keep competing after the team event. Skinner was also already the “named” alternate. Not an extra person brought in on top of the already “named” alternate during qualification.

As MC says, there isn’t that distinction and so the situation in 2015 was the same. Dowell having not made an EF would if anything be all the more reason to have subbed her out.

 

[RichardL]

What about 2006 when Karolyi benched Kelley and Priess in TF? Did she have the option to sub in another athlete?

 

[irichluck21]

What about 2006 when Karolyi benched Kelley and Priess in TF? Did she have the option to sub in another athlete?

No, the FIG rules changed in 2015 I believe to allow alternates to sub out.

 

[irichluck21]

Also the FIG is already differentiated from the Olympics as they have a 6th member designated as the alternate. IOC doesn’t recognize alternates.

So already the FIG does something different. Might as well go back to 6-5-4 and 6-3-3 and let the 6th member compete if needed.

Otherwise it looks shady when teams like China (Worlds) and Brazil (Pan Am Championships) sub an athlete in after qualifications and they aren’t really injured.

It was interesting that China’s gamble by not having Lin Chaopan do qualifications almost backfired and they nearly missed team finals.

 

[MaryClare]

Also the FIG is already differentiated from the Olympics as they have a 6th member designated as the alternate. IOC doesn’t recognize alternates.

So already the FIG does something different. Might as well go back to 6-5-4 and 6-3-3 and let the 6th member compete if needed.

Otherwise it looks shady when teams like China (Worlds) and Brazil (Pan Am Championships) sub an athlete in after qualifications and they aren’t really injured.

It was interesting that China’s gamble by not having Lin Chaopan do qualifications almost backfired and they nearly missed team finals.

It’s not shady. There doesn’t have to be an injury to bring in the 6th athlete. Any team is entitled to do so. It is only after start lists are finalised that there has to be a request made in order to change the line up. But it’s it’s your intention then you just submit your line ups using whoever you want as long as it’s no more than 5 athletes

 

[irichluck21]

It isn’t against the rules, but it comes across as shady to the general public and even informed fans.
People were generally confused about the substitution and then when Shi Cong came back to compete in event finals it further confused people.

The fact that we haven’t really seen any other countries do this is interesting.

Again, just might as well go to 6-4-3, 6-3-3 at Worlds if the alternate/6th athlete can be subbed in for team finals. It would benefit teams and gymnasts to do so because then NOCs won’t have to determine who is the alternate.
Alternate is still used because teams refer to the 6th athlete as the “alternate”.