Why did many female gymnasts perform wonderfully in Olympic team final, but fell in event final? (Li ShanShan, Cheng Fei, McKayla, Viktoria)

[RedBirdie]

I am 99% certain that team finals was tape delayed. Typically, commentary was recorded AFTER the competition. Assuming that was the case, Elfie made a vicious, premeditated comment, just because.

 

[tempest]

I'm sure it was prerecorded as well... remember NBC already knew the outcome of the 96 WAG TF yet they milked that for all it was worth

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

This forever. The landing during the AA was truly horrific. Huge lunge forward. It stands out to me as just too big of a mistake for AA gold.

Not that I want to open this can of worms, but Miller was given gifts as well. I’ve always been of the mindset that they should have tied and Boguinskaya should have won the bronze.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Not that I want to open this can of worms, but Miller was given gifts as well. I’ve always been of the mindset that they should have tied and Boguinskaya should have won the bronze.

Miller would've won if she'd stuck that double pike on floor. If you wanted a big score doing the easier skills in 92, they had to be well controlled.

She was a beneficiary of the unofficial starting value over 10 as well. That's why she won beam in the AA. If they weren't factoring difficulty in, making sure not all 10 SVs were equal, she wouldn't have got 9.925 for a beam routine with two balance checks and beaten Boginskaya whose execution was better.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

I've always had a degree sympathy for the judges in Barcelona. They had to operate in a context where the code had long become outdated, half a tenth was a lot and where they only really had two tenths max available to distinguish the routines of the best gymnasts form each other. It's not like you could even go just on vibes, because you'd also have to work out what the other judges were doing too. So 50% of the judges in the final gave Gutsu 10, and that's justifiable both as her best routine of the Games and in relation to some of the competition. But then what do you do with Li Lu, that level of extra content? If you think a routine is halfway between 9.95 and 9.9, you just have to take a punt and hope the other judges fall in. The difference between 9.912 and 9.937 was fairly significant then.

It's frankly miraculous that so many of the results were broadly fine. Even Gutsu's 9.925 on floor is understandable in a context where some routines were unofficially starting from above 10, had to really, due to difficulty. Her floor and beam, Miller's beam, Lysenko's DTY etc.

I can get behind a lot of that. Gutsu did go before Li Lu in the final (and not so early so that the judges needed to leave room, however stupid that concept is), however, and I think a 10 for both could have been warranted.

I think the worst judging came in compulsories. Yes, Grudneva went in the very first rotation, but I think a lot of people would agree that she had the very best compulsories in Barcelona. Regardless of when the athlete goes up, a judge should be competent to see that it likely won't be topped later in the competition.

9.812


These scores were especially egregious:

9.8


9.9!!! According to the judges, this was the very best compulsory beam routine of the day.


The Romanians are pretty lucky that the US pissed away the Silver on UB/BB, becuase they would have a great claim to the silver medal otherwise.

 

[phoenix7]

I can get behind a lot of that. Gutsu did go before Li Lu in the final (and not so early so that the judges needed to leave room, however stupid that concept is), however, and I think a 10 for both could have been warranted.

I think the worst judging came in compulsories. Yes, Grudneva went in the very first rotation, but I think a lot of people would agree that she had the very best compulsories in Barcelona. Regardless of when the athlete goes up, a judge should be competent to see that it likely won't be topped later in the competition.

9.812


These scores were especially egregious:

9.8


9.9!!! According to the judges, this was the very best compulsory beam routine of the day.


The Romanians are pretty lucky that the US pissed away the Silver on UB/BB, becuase they would have a great claim to the silver medal otherwise.

Wow. Thanks for posting the videos. What bizarre scoring that was!

 

[Rich]

I can get behind a lot of that. Gutsu did go before Li Lu in the final (and not so early so that the judges needed to leave room, however stupid that concept is), however, and I think a 10 for both could have been warranted.

I think the worst judging came in compulsories. Yes, Grudneva went in the very first rotation, but I think a lot of people would agree that she had the very best compulsories in Barcelona. Regardless of when the athlete goes up, a judge should be competent to see that it likely won't be topped later in the competition.

Thanks for sharing. I did not realize how beautiful Grudenva was in style. It did not feel like a compulsory routine. She definitely got shafted

 

[RichardL]

Miller would've won if she'd stuck that double pike on floor. If you wanted a big score doing the easier skills in 92, they had to be well controlled.

She was a beneficiary of the unofficial starting value over 10 as well. That's why she won beam in the AA. If they weren't factoring difficulty in, making sure not all 10 SVs were equal, she wouldn't have got 9.925 for a beam routine with two balance checks and beaten Boginskaya whose execution was better.

Boginskaya completely botched a leap in her routine, which I think is what kept her behind Miller.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Boginskaya completely botched a leap in her routine, which I think is what kept her behind Miller.

Yeah, I do wonder how high the judges would have gone if she hadn't fucked that up. They showed later in the week with Lysenko that they were willing to throw a 10 at a gorgeously executed routine with fairly little content comparatively.

I think she still would have been behind Miller, but even with the mistake, she should have finished ahead of Milo and Bontas.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Agreed! I would say Shannon's biggest gift was on floor that day.

I always thought Miller was lucky to get as close to Gutsu on bars as she did. Her lines were nice, but she was really lacking in amplitude compared to other top scorers there, and that had started to matter by 92. But yeah, I think it often gets missed that her double pike was no better controlled than Gutsu's DLO, and for an easier skill. And if people want to redo it with an everyone actually starting from 10 eye, that applies to Miller on beam as much as it does Gutsu on floor.

YY re compulsories judging. Very strange! Hadn't really factored that into my analysis because as you say, it didn't change anything in the end. Grudneva in particular got really screwed. I think she'd have done a bit better if the Unified Team hadn't had such a bad draw, but they did sacrifice her in the lineups.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Boginskaya completely botched a leap in her routine, which I think is what kept her behind Miller.

Yes most likely. But what I mean is Boginskaya didn't have the extra difficulty to offset it. She was a 10 starting from only a 10, iyswim.

 

[Lisaelaine80]

Not that I want to open this can of worms, but Miller was given gifts as well. I’ve always been of the mindset that they should have tied and Boguinskaya should have won the bronze.

I could totally get on board with this. I liked Milo enough for bronze. Bogi just didn’t have the difficulty. Lysenko would have been a wonderful medalist.

 

[Lisaelaine80]

I always thought Miller was lucky to get as close to Gutsu on bars as she did. Her lines were nice, but she was really lacking in amplitude compared to other top scorers there, and that had started to matter by 92. But yeah, I think it often gets missed that her double pike was no better controlled than Gutsu's DLO, and for an easier skill. And if people want to redo it with an everyone actually starting from 10 eye, that applies to Miller on beam as much as it does Gutsu on floor.

YY re compulsories judging. Very strange! Hadn't really factored that into my analysis because as you say, it didn't change anything in the end. Grudneva in particular got really screwed. I think she'd have done a bit better if the Unified Team hadn't had such a bad draw, but they did sacrifice her in the lineups.

Gutsu’s landing was much worse. She lunged so far that both feet moved up. Chest down. It was bad. If Gutsu was competing for another team, that landing would have been a much bigger deduction.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Gutsu’s landing was much worse. She lunged so far that both feet moved up. Chest down. It was bad. If Gutsu was competing for another team, that landing would have been a much bigger deduction.

Miller also lunged so far backwards that both feet moved up also. Properly snatched, that was. People tend to notice the forwards landings much more because the not entirely controlled steps backwards were so common then. Gutsu did have a low chest on her DLO, that's true, but this isn't a point that benefits Miller either. Because hers was just as low on her second full in. Face is pointed fully downwards.

Completely agree Gutsu would never have got that score if she'd been in a different leotard, but that's no less true of Miller. Put her in say, a Guatemalan leotard and that would never have gone 9.9. The top gymnasts in 92 were being scored with a different pen to the rest. Appalling, but luckily it didn't affect the AA podium.

Re Lysenko, I don't think her ankles were up to it by the time Barcelona rolled round, sadly. Specifically floor. If they'd had a 3 event, drop whichever one you like AA, she'd have been a real contender!

 

[Matilda23]

What leg and foot injuries did Lisenko have in 91 Worlds? One leg was wrapped up to just below her knee. Both ankles taped too.