2023 Paris world cup

[KristyJ]

I totally get what it’s like to get stuck on a piece of music, as well, and to have trouble admitting that there’s what you’d like to look like out there vs. where your strengths really are

 

[ruby]

Artistry was also pretty much non-existent in 2008. Music and choreography almost did not matter at all.
Nastia had great music and looked great doing the most basic poses but her choreography was rather uninspired compared to what we see today.
In any case music and dance definitely did not make a difference in scoring.

 

[onodian]

Yeah that code was total shit for floor. 10 Elements was a killer. I think izbasa may be one of my favourite routines in the code. Which is saying a lot.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

Artistry was also pretty much non-existent in 2008. Music and choreography almost did not matter at all.
Nastia had great music and looked great doing the most basic poses but her choreography was rather uninspired compared to what we see today.
In any case music and dance definitely did not make a difference in scoring.

I always thought all of Nastia’s choreography looked the same, granted I liked her 2004-2005 music the most. Mostly, I just hate that because of her growth spurt she decided to learn a double front 1/2 out dismount off bars and a double front on floor which never looked good, but I guess you could only take so many deductions in that code.

 

[Angelika]

I’m a total floor music snob - it makes or breaks a routine. For me they could haul a grand piano back into the arena!

Over the years I have hated perfectly performed floor exercises because the music was naff!

 

[Concorde]

Mostly, I just hate that because of her growth spurt she decided to learn a double front 1/2 out dismount off bars and a double front on floor which never looked good, but I guess you could only take so many deductions in that code.

Liukin had to add a double salto on floor because it became an Element Group Requirement in June of 2006. If you watch her routines from the American Cup or the Pacific Alliance Championships from that year, she only performed twisting passes because the rules had not yet changed.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

Liukin had to add a double salto on floor because it became an Element Group Requirement in June of 2006. If you watch her routines from the American Cup or the Pacific Alliance Championships from that year, she only performed twisting passes because the rules had not yet changed.

Yeah, I know that as far as floor goes, but she could have learned a double pike instead and it probably would have been less offensive, although she also had issues with back handsprings later on, too, right? This is why I didn’t like her gymnastics as much after the rule changes and her growth spurt. It seems like she was stuck in a lot of ways, which is ironic because she won the bronze medal on floor in 2008.

 

[MaryClare]

Yeah, I know that as far as floor goes, but she could have learned a double pike instead and it probably would have been less offensive, although she also had issues with back handsprings later on, too, right? This is why I didn’t like her gymnastics as much after the rule changes and her growth spurt. It seems like she was stuck in a lot of ways.

Yes because we all want to see more double pikes in gymnastics…
I don’t think a double pike was an option for Liukin, or certainly a double front was an easier one

 

[arabiandoublefront]

Yes because we all want to see more double pikes in gymnastics…
I don’t think a double pike was an option for Liukin, or certainly a double front was an easier one

I rather see a billion double pikes than Nastia’s double front ever again. I miss Ivana Hong’s double front.

 

[rlayt]

IIRC someone in her camp said the double pike was harder on her back.

 

[QuietColours]

IIRC someone in her camp said the double pike was harder on her back.

Backwards landings in general were harder on her back and ankles, iirc

 

[Sasha]

Yeah that code was total shit for floor. 10 Elements was a killer. I think izbasa may be one of my favourite routines in the code. Which is saying a lot.

Yeah, Shawn’s routine never stood out to me for that reason. It was bland and the music was background music, but that was basically the standard back then.

 

[onodian]

I was just watching the 07 routine and thinking that’s some listunova music right there.

Btw chow had her do a switch ring. A SWITCH RING. The audacity of 2007 judging

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yeah, I know that as far as floor goes, but she could have learned a double pike instead and it probably would have been less offensive, although she also had issues with back handsprings later on, too, right? This is why I didn’t like her gymnastics as much after the rule changes and her growth spurt. It seems like she was stuck in a lot of ways, which is ironic because she won the bronze medal on floor in 2008.

I bet it wouldn’t have been. Nothing about Nastia’s gymnastics said non-offensive double pike, even when she could still bhs fine.

 

[brg09]

I was just watching the 07 routine and thinking that’s some listunova music right there.

Btw chow had her do a switch ring. A SWITCH RING. The audacity of 2007 judging

I actually liked her 07 floor routine music. She didn’t really interpret it very well, but it was upbeat, different, and lent itself well ti the purpose.

I don’t think anyone on here is “targeting” her or being unfair, just critical–which is fine. I do remember a post from WWGym that was an overhead shot of Shawn doing a split leap on beam and her hips weren’t square… and some teeth-gnashing about that. Which I think is completely fair.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I bet it wouldn’t have been. Nothing about Nastia’s gymnastics said non-offensive double pike, even when she could still bhs fine.

Yeah, so it really comes down for me that both Shawn and Nastia had flaws and I supported the one who was closer to my taste up to that point, and if I ever came across as being obnoxiously in favor of Shawn (and I probably still do to a degree), it’s because I was more passionate and biased in my youth and it’s hard to let go of that. I just know I don’t really have extreme favorites now like I used to. I’d like to think I can see something good in all the elite gymnasts. They’ve worked so hard to get where they’re at in the sport, even the ones who might have taken some shortcuts.

 

[RAFIKI]

I do remember a post from WWGym that was an overhead shot of Shawn doing a split leap on beam and her hips weren’t square… and some teeth-gnashing about that. Which I think is completely fair.

I also remember this. I couldn’t find the directly overhead photo but I found one that makes the same point:

I best say something on topic now …

In his interviews Jarman said he found it challenging focusing on pieces for Paris and then switching to AA for worlds. He said it was difficult to keep up that level of fitness. Would be interesting to compare Paris-Antwerp performances for all the gymnasts that did both. It was excellent to have a great field do their pre-worlds tune up in Paris.

 

[KristyJ]

Yeah, so it really comes down for me that both Shawn and Nastia had flaws and I supported the one who was closer to my taste up to that point, and if I ever came across as being obnoxiously in favor of Shawn (and I probably still do to a degree), it’s because I was more passionate and biased in my youth and it’s hard to let go of that. I just know I don’t really have extreme favorites now like I used to. I’d like to think I can see something good in all the elite gymnasts. They’ve worked so hard to get where they’re at in the sport, even the ones who might have taken some shortcuts.

I was that way about Kim and Shannon in '92, so I get it. Younger me was really upset with the way things shook down in the Olympics, it took me years to learn to appreciate Shannon’s gymnastics properly.

As for being on topic, I imagine Jarman focussing hard on pieces instead of focussing AA while just happening to compete individual apparatus may have been a factor. I feel like doing two competitions so close together, you train for the more important one and let the other one work out as it does.

 

[dweiss324]

As someone who was 18 when Beijing happened, so much of my opinion was informed by the nbc media train at the time, despite being an avid follower of gymnastics. Shawn was the golden girl, she could do no wrong, AA was her deserved “inheritance”, whatever. It took a long time for that narrative to unravel in my mind. When I watch her floor routine now, I don’t mind the music, I’ve seen the movie, I get why she chose it. All I heard at the time was “double double” and something like “more mature / international audience”. But with today’s lens, I suddenly realize how shit the dancing is. So now all of a sudden I can understand why the younger crowd / reddit crowd is really into Roberson. They’ll have to just grow out of her.

 

[Denn]

Until Simone came along, Shawn was by far the most popular gymnast the US had produced. I’m not sure in what way she is being “targeted”

HUH??? Mary Lou Retton? Nastia Liukin???