Tokyo Qualies (interesting routines)

[YurchenkoLoop]

Maloney - bent arm regrasp .1, backswing leg sep .1
Stalder 1/1 - bent arms .1, late pirouette .5
Piked Tkachev - bent arms regrasp .1
Pak - angle of catch .1 (hard to tell from this angle)
Kip - bent arms .1
Van Leeuwen - bent arms regrasp .1
1/2 turn - precision .1
Piked Jaeger - bent arms regrasp .1 (borderline .3 but I gave benefit of the doubt)
KCH 1/2 - late turn .3
Toe 1/1 - late .1
Dismount - flexed feet .1

I actually have her at 8.1 but was intentionally being strict after reading your post, Doug. I’m guessing they didn’t take more than .1 for the toe 1/1… either way, they were definitely strict but I don’t think this was too off of a score. She really cleaned up immensely before Worlds.

 

[Doug1233]

It’s weird because I’m quite in line (maybe 1 or 2 high) for everyone else on bars. And @YurchenkoLoop i agree that all those deductions exist but I don’t think when compared to the others it’s the same pen. you could probably get Derwael and Melnikova down to an 8.0 with that same pen.

In real time from this angle I took 3 for the stalder full, 1 on the cast half and 1 for the toe full (but the cast half was borderline 3).

you took 5 or 6 for bent arms throughout which I don’t think I took, and that explains most of the difference. I don’t know if it’s the angle but I just don’t see those bent arms as any more deductible than Melnikova (which clearly the FIG judges didn’t take)

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Yeah the bent arms on the stalder 1/1 was maybe a little ridiculous of me. For what it’s worth, bent arms usually amount to a plurality of deductions in my scoring, be it accurate or not lol

 

[Doug1233]

Looking back on the numbers, I’ve just realized how spectacularly poorly Chiles did in prelims.

She is the first US gymnast, since Dominique Dawes in 2000, to have competed AA in Olympic Prelims and who would not have qualified to the AA final (but for 2per).

This Century:

• Dawes (41st - 2000)
• Mohini (8th - 2004)
• McCool (13th - 2004)
• Sloan (11th - 2008)
• Weber (4th - 2012)
• Gabby (3rd - 2016)
• Carey (9th - 2020)
• Skinner (11th - 2020)
• Grace (13th - 2020)
• Chiles (40th - 2020)

 

[Doug1233]

Get ur butt into Column I!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ItXWgdLfAP-U48C0qpO_2_MtKwZ6-F4Eid-8n81xbCU/edit#gid=90964741

 

[Doug1233]

but was intentionally being strict after reading your post

Using the same strict pen, what would you give this:



And I don’t get that Moors scored a higher E for her prelims FX routine (8.433) than her AA routine (8.366). The AA routine was better in many respects.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

UB
Shaposhnikova - leg sep .1, bent arms regrasp .1, leg sep backswing .1
Pak - leg separation .1 (I wouldn’t deduct for angle of catch, borderline)
Toe 1/1 - late .3
Van Leeuwen - leg sep .1, bent arms catch .1
KCH - missed handstand .1
Hip circle - bent arms .1
1/2 turn - leg sep .1, precision .1, break in rhythm .1
Khorkina - lack of counter-rotation .1, precision .1, foot form .1, bent arms catch .3
Lack of extension in kch .1
Dismount - foot form .1

I have her at 7.8. she scored 8.0, and I’m sure the leg separation on her Shaposh is prob not visible from the judges angle.

I didn’t deduct Andrade and Moors for their bent arms on their giants. I probably should though but same pen!

Shap + Pak DD .1
Toe 1/1 D
VL E
1/2 + Markelov BD
Hip C
Toe front 1/2 C
EDDDDCCB 2.9 + 2.0 + .1 = 5.0

as for Moors’ floor, the AA routine is definitely better. But Canada closed on FX in TQ, and in the AA Moors competed FX immediately after Murakami in the second rotation

 

[Doug1233]

UB
Shaposhnikova - leg sep .1, bent arms regrasp .1, leg sep backswing .1
Pak - leg separation .1 (I wouldn’t deduct for angle of catch, borderline) Surely this is a 0.1 with a harsh pen?
Toe 1/1 - late .3 You wouldn’t take legs? And if you’re taking 5 for Andrade’s stalder full, this is a clear 5! She’s past 45!
Van Leeuwen - leg sep .1, bent arms catch .1 I wouldn’t take bent arms here but I would take body alignment
KCH - missed handstand .1
Hip circle - bent arms .1 Legs?
1/2 turn - leg sep .1 On the side, yes 0.1, but its a clear 3 from this angle, precision .1, break in rhythm .1
Khorkina - lack of counter-rotation .1, precision .1, foot form .1, bent arms catch .3 Legs? That right leg is clearly bent
Lack of extension in kch .1
Dismount - foot form .1

I don’t do this to criticise. It’s just my opinion that there should be much more than 0.2 separation between these two routines.

 

[Doug1233]

the AA routine is definitely better

Even the artistry I thought was better. I feel like the balloon kinda popped after she leg up after the second pass. She was clearly hoping for EF and you could just feel the disappointment and realisation that she wouldn’t make EF after that mistake. It made the rest of her dance pretty flat, to me. Especially when you watch her AA routine.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Moors falls out of the toe 1/1 fast but when she regrasps, she’s at no more than a .3 angle

 

[Doug1233]

Moors falls out of the toe 1/1 fast but when she regrasps, she’s at no more than a .3 angle

Same as Andrade, no?

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

she looks pretty parallel to the ground when she finishes the turn. I think hers is worse, but I suppose it’s borderline

 

[Doug1233]

I feel like there are so many more “microdeductions” in Moor’s routine that aren’t in Andrade’s routine. I don’t know how to explain it.

Actually - I do. It’s why Raisman for an 8.7 E in Rio for her bars. Just minor errors in foot form, knee extension, shoulder angle, etc. etc. throughout. None of which are worthy of a 0.1 deduction, so they just get completely passed over.

Not saying that Moors is comparable to Raisman - I just wish there was a way to reward superior extension throughout on bars.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I hear you. Also, not to beat a dead horse, but Andrade can be a hell of a lot better on UB than that routine. It was really just good, when she can be phenomenal.

 

[Doug1233]

They also downgraded Suni’s Double L (0:48) to single L. And this was the best she did it in all 4 routines on the Tokyo podium.

Correct decision. I downgraded it in real time too. She clearly drops the L in the first revolution. But I think a lot of people would think this was too harsh.

I don’t know why she kept it in there. She completely missed it in Podium Training. And she was precisely 0 for 3 on it throughout the Olympics. She couldn’t do it.

It’s crazy that she went into the meet with 10 C+ elements. The Double Tuck was worth a tenth; and the Double L was worth a tenth (provided she hit both Wolf Turns, which were so much more reliable - she only missed 1 out of 8 on floor from PT, Q, TF and AA). There was no way on God’s Earth that she was ever going to: (1) get full credit for both; and (2) do either skill with only 1 tenth in execution. Just No Way.

Even in the AA, she still kept the Double L. I guess as a “back up” in case one of her Wolfs was short. But it wasn’t even a “back up” because it never got credit as a D. But let’s say it magically would get credited (which it never was), even if a Wolf got downgraded, that meant the Double L was still only worth 2 tenths. She couldn’t do that skill with her leg at 90 in the first revolution. That Double L, for the whole of the Olympics, was just dead weight in her routine. It never added anything. Can you imagine if she had lost Olympic Gold because of that. She was SO close to not winning the AA title because they insisted on her keeping a skill that she couldn’t do. And it wouldn’t surprise me if they took 3 tenths on it in the AA. And she won by less than half that.

I feel like this might be yet another example of skills getting domestic credit all year, and then there’s a big shock when the FIG judges don’t credit them.

 

[Doug1233]

It seems that they didn’t credit Grace’s Switch Ring (0:35). I think this is pretty harsh. I would give it (just).



And 5.3 D for this - I’m stumped:



Full credit is 5.6.

I mean, it wasn’t pretty. But I gave everything. My only hesitations are crediting the Switch Half (credit Switch Side) and/or not giving her the Straddle connection in the Aerial-Split-Straddle opening series due to arm swing?

What do you guys think?

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Her foot is well below her shoulder though

 

[Doug1233]

I’m not saying it wasn’t close. And i’m certainly giving it 0.3. But, with benefit to gymnast, I would credit this as back foot AT shoulder height. I certainly wouldn’t think it was “well below” shoulder height.

It’s annoying that a leap that good, and which is CLEARLY a switch ring, is at risk of downgrade. She has lovely back arch and head release. She is in oversplit at the apex. And her back foot is even pointed. But she clearly is borderline for that one technical requirement. I guess it depends where you draw the “foot to shoulder” line? Is it the toes or the heel?

IMO, the Code is overly fixated on back foot height for switch rings, while completely ignoring the derth of completely turned out hips and straddle positions in leaps that are credited in cross-split.

Skinner:

I had 5.8 D (did not credit the gogean or the L Hop 1/1). She got a 6.0, so they gave her both.



I could forgive the Gogean in real time but that L Hop 1/1 is a full quarter short.

 

[irichluck21]

@Doug1233
Can you copy this table and begin pasting prelim routine links in for us??
Pretty Please??

Russian Olympic Committee

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Lilia Akhaimova
Elena Gerasimova
Anastasia Illyankova	NA	NA	NA
Viktoria Listunova
Angelina Melnikova
Vladislava Urasova

United States

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Simone Biles
Jade Carey
Jordan Chiles
Suni Lee
Grace McCallum
MyKayla Skinner

China

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Guan Chenchen	NA	NA	NA
Fan Yilin	NA	NA	NA
Lu Yufei
Ou Yushan	NA
Tang Xijing
Zhang Jin

France

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Marine Boyer
MDJDS
Aline Friess
Carolann Heduit

Belgium

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Maellyse Brassart
Nina Derwael
Lisa Vaelen
Jutta Verkest

Great Britain

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Jennifer Gadirova
Jessica Gadirova
Alice Kinsella
Amelie Morgan

Italy

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Alice D’Amato
Asia D’Amato
Vanessa Ferrari
Martina Maggio
Lara Mori	NA	NA

Japan

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Ashikawa Urara	NA	NA	NA
Hatakeda Hitomi
Hiraiwa Yuna
Murakami Mai
Sugihara Aiko

Germany

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Kim Bui
Pauline Schaffer- Betz
Elizabeth Seitz
Sarah Voss

Canada

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Ellie Black
Brooklyn Moors
Shallon Olsen
Ava Stewart

Netherlands

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Eythoa Thorsdottier
Vera van Pol
Lieke Wevers
Sanna Wevers

Spain

Vault	Bars	Beam	Floor
Laura Bechdeju
Marina Gonzalez
Alba Petisco
Roxana Popa

 

[Concorde]

I mean, it wasn’t pretty. But I gave everything. My only hesitations are crediting the Switch Half (credit Switch Side) and/or not giving her the Straddle connection in the Aerial-Split-Straddle opening series due to arm swing?

To me, it looks like Carey has a slight pause before she goes into the plie for the split jump, which would break the connection. I would have no problem with a judge giving credit because it is borderline. However, if you compare her execution to the way Suni does her connection the difference is way more obvious. Therefore, having seen this earlier in the rotation, I could understand why a judge could be ‘influenced’ to not credit Jade’s connection.

I don’t think the arm swing is an issue because it is a) downward swing to finish the split jump to b) immediate change of direction into the straddle jump. I have the series going from D + B + B to D X B + B, which is how she goes from 5.6 to the credited 5.4.

For the switch leap 1/2, Carey shows a clear cross split, especially at the peak of the element, so I would not credit it as a side switch leap.