Simone’s Yurchenko Double Pike

[tempest]

Oh, I think this was a good connection! Just a .1 off on the split. Better looking than a stag connection, although that one is easier to abuse in the code. Wolf jump out of acro also feels like it should have been a thing, but I can’t recall anyone ever doing it. Double Layout + Wolf Jump these days sounds quite code friendly.

Didn’t Fragapane do a wolf jump after her DLO

 

[Doug1233]

Simone tried the Chuso + Split jump and it just wasn’t great

Looks ok to me!

 

[GymBeauty]

Didn’t Fragapane do a wolf jump after her DLO

Had to look it up, seems she’s been doing it since 2019! Out of 4 attempts I’ve now seen, one was 0 deduction, another was either 0 or .1, the third was .1, and the last was definitely .3 deduction. So yeah, a very doable thing to add to a routine for code hacking, and as long as there is enough bounce on the landing (a Simone specialty) the wolf jump should be pretty easy to do without deduction.

Granted, it doesn’t look very nice, but the code does not care about that too much.

 

[KristyJ]

Let me clarify, it is the need to land in such a manner as to direct momentum upwards, which requires you’re coming in at a slightly more acute angle than you might otherwise, especially if you generally overcook landings for the purpose of protecting ankles. The harder/more force in the skill, the more concern I feel about it on a backwards landing.

 

[KristyJ]

It wasn’t pretty, but she did. Mind you, the not being pretty was possibly due to a number of factors.

 

[cats]

I don’t think it’s possible to punch into a wolf jump without looking like a chicken.

 

[KristyJ]

It can be done out of a roundoff to look good so it must be possible to do it out of something else

 

[dweiss324]

I always thought fragapane’s wolf jump after a pass was revolting and I wouldn’t wish more of those on any of us.

 

[Yarotska]

Looks ok to me!

I didn’t care for how deep she landed, and she also didn’t go up or back, she went forwards. Idk I’m always on a different page as you guys when it comes to these things.

 

[blake]

Wolf jump out of acro also feels like it should have been a thing, but I can’t recall anyone ever doing it

I think Dowell did the Dowell to a wolf jump once in her elite years. It’s not as elegant as a sissone/stag but I think it would work better for forward elements.

 

[GymBeauty]

My goodness that Dowell routine with 11 elements B or higher. It’s like she thought it was 2008 still. Love to see the front tumbling though.

Her wolf jump there has sufficient enough leg form to not get any deduction. Definitely looks like more people should be trying this, despite the general unprettiness of the movie. I can accept it if this is what would get Simone to an 8.0 start value routine. Just want to see that number happen.

The wolf jump could look so much better if people stretched their arms backward while doing the move. But that also makes it harder to do and doesn’t get any real reward in the code, bah. Having a higher angle with the leg and placing the arms forward next to the foot also looks better - Leanne Wong does this and it gives her the best wolf jump on Beam that I’ve seen.

 

[KristyJ]

I was thinking varied arms might look nice- one up, one at a slight angle off forward, posture tall or a little arched, if a gymnast can manage it.

 

[Denn]

About the Yurchenko Double Pike (I lost track of this thread)… If Simone Biles comes back for 2024, I think we’ll see the Cheng as her main vault and the double pike as the second vault.

My guess is that she has not done an Amanar since prelims in Tokyo and that this vault is just not something she would be into. And with such a kickass other vault available, she won’t need it.

Moreover, I think it’s totally bullshit to claim that it’s so risky and dangerous for her. She had great technique, and there are plenty of gymnasts who have done Tsuk double pikes or Dragulescus over and over and over with worse technique.

A good comparison with Biles is Kristian Thomas, who did this same vault over and over for years:



So if all these guys could, why not an in-shape Biles?

 

[GymBeauty]

Double Pike as her main vault would be a great universe to exist in.

I wonder if any WAG will ever do a roundoff 1/2-on Double Tuck.

 

[tempest]

I wonder if any WAG will ever do a roundoff 1/2-on Double Tuck.

Has any MAG done that vault??

 

[Doug1233]

I wonder if any WAG will ever do a roundoff 1/2-on Double Tuck.

Double Tuck front?

 

[Denn]

I don’t think anyone has ever done roundoff + half-on + double front off in competition.

It’s in the men’s Code of Points — which usually means it WAS done by someone, but I think that is just a mistake.

There are probably a few people who have attempted it in the gym into a pit or something. That list allegedly includes Vanessa Atler. I would imagine that Dragulescu almost certainly has attempted this vault, perhaps even with the half twist at the end. Besides that, it would be wild speculation.

If Nemov had competed on the table at his prime, this is a vault I would speculate he would have trained, as he could do a double front and did the men’s version of the “Cheng” (unnamed because a few guys debuted it at the same time).

 

[Denn]

@GymBeauty Supposedly Chuso wants to do that vault. I REALLY don’t think that will ever happen, and I don’t see any historical vaulter capable of this vault EXCEPT Atler maybe. Biles, maybe, but we never saw her do a double front of any kind anywhere, right? But her Roundoff + half-on technique is so good that she could do the front double full with plenty of rotation.

ETA: Let me add Courtney Kupets as someone who might have been able to do it in the gym. She had a powerful round-half-on and was outstanding at forward double saltos! And maybe Podkopayeva, too, then, for that matter!

Check out the outstanding block technique and huge air time she gets.

 

[GymBeauty]

I’m interested to hear what you’d change about the Difficulty Values for current vaults. The “Produnova” in both WAG and MAG feels undervalued to me, and also the roundoff 1/2-on Double Tuck (worth only .2 more in MAG and seemingly would be in WAG too). In general the code idea of increasing vault values by .4 for every extra 1/2 turn is flawed.

 

[makam]

We’ve also seen people cannonball double fronts, it feels like Simone has the power and rotation to “chuck” a YDP. The woman is a bit risk averse when it comes to some things so perhaps she just can’t chuck things but I feel that she safely could. Maybe the form wouldn’t be as textbook as her attempts before Tokyo, but it wouldn’t have to be.

She could also chuck a TTY and get it around enough to count I bet, but sadly never did. I’m surprised there isn’t any video of her doing it into a pit, but maybe she didn’t want to tease us with something she wasn’t planning on doing.