Ponor vs Carey FX artistry

[RAFIKI]

I was watching 2016 Euros TF yesterday and realised I’d completely forgotten that these gymnasts shared floor music. I’d be very interested in opinions on the dance and artistry judging for two very different gymnasts using the same music.

FWIW I thought this was a decent music choice for Carey and her routine has grown on me. However it drives me nuts that she never hits all the musical accents.

Ponor



Carey

 

[JaJa]

I love Jade. But artistry is not her strong point

 

[Milkshakedonut]

I think it’s not only artistry but the expression of it as well… it’s just all very flat That being said, I think she is an incredible athlete and very talented in other aspects of her gymnastics.

 

[Doug1233]

Great topic!

Bookmarked to look at this properly later.

 

[KristyJ]

It’s been interesting to watch Jade in college. It’s clear that precise but unemotional movement was very ingrained into her gymnastics, but each week she gets one or two more small moments of expression in her college routine.

 

[RedBirdie]

I watched these both on mute…no idea that its the same music.

 

[makam]

Yes, all of Jade’s movements look very, very deliberate. First, I move my hand like this, then I turn like that. I actually like that careful deliberation in her BB and even UB. I know a light, swingy UB is preferred but none of Jade’s moves looked rushed (none really looked natural, but I prefer that to the people who fling and pray). But that deliberation in every movement makes Jade’s routine look empty. There aren’t any small moments. Ponor has much better flow between movements. And dang, Cata, queen. The technical content at that late stage in her career is incredible.

 

[RAFIKI]

I watched these both on mute…no idea that its the same music.

Interesting observation, I wonder if there are pairs of floor routines where you can tell that it’s the same music on mute?

For our weekly gym zooms I often have the sound quite low to avoid feedback and not have to faff with unmuting every time I want to say something. It has certainly changed the way I look at floor choreography. Some routines are better for it which should never be the case.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yes that is a rather tragic indictment…

 

[Doug1233]

I wonder how Jade would have done with a routine that was choreographed to within an inch of its life: I’m thinking Wieber 2012.

 

[JaJa]

I think it’s not only artistry but the expression of it as well… it’s just all very flat That being said, I think she is an incredible athlete and very talented in other aspects of her gymnastics.

Jade’s athleticism and acrobatic talent are amazing and matter a lot more to me than her lack of “artistry.” Honestly I find the continued emphasis on artistry in WAG, as opposed to MAG, a sexist throwback to outdated notions of gender roles. Women have to be graceful and feminine and pretty while men have to be strong and powerful. In an era where you have Simone Biles doing things the men can not do and women gymnasts generally are performing harder and harder skills, isn’t it time to make this sport more progressive? Either start judging the men on artistry (and making them focus on how their hair looks before competition) or stop emphasizing it for the women.

 

[RedBirdie]

Ponor and Carey’s routines are just so polar opposite that I can’t even tell you what the music might be because the choreo is so radically different. I would have told you that they used two very different pieces with very different tempos!

 

[RAFIKI]

I wonder how Jade would have done with a routine that was choreographed to within an inch of its life: I’m thinking Wieber 2012.

I said for years that Carey should do something like Wieber’s 2011-2 routine. I thought that powerful music which engaged the crowd and some clever choreography (it’s not like Wieber was a standout but that routine really worked for her) would be a winner. In the end the crowd aspect would have had no impact whatsoever!

 

[onodian]

I think people underestimate how good Wieber was at fx. I don’t think Carey could do that routine. Or well, she could, but she wouldn’t look like Wieber. She just doesn’t seem to me to be capable of “performing”. It’s all very painting by numbers; by contrast Wieber, even if not balletic, was very good at engaging with the music and “embodying” the moves. I don’t do choreography, but my guess is, with Jade you should probably start with what CAN she do that looks natural to her or she feels like she’s comfortable with, and then kind of work from there. I don’t know if there would be a stamina issue, but she would certainly benefit from acro-ish choreo (you know, full twisting bhs kind of thing, Valdez off the floor, this kind of thing)

 

[Seyonne]

Jade moves with the deliberate slowness of a sloth. I suggest she do a routine in which she portrays the humble sloth. Does portraying a character count as artistry? If it does, then there you go.

 

[JaJa]

Jade moves with the deliberate slowness of a sloth. I suggest she do a routine in which she portrays the humble sloth. Does portraying a character count as artistry? If it does, then there you go.

Ha!!!

 

[JaJa]

Onodian may feel threatened. Seyonne is almost as funny as he is!!!

 

[onodian]

 

[Indy]

I wonder what it would look like for a different gymnast to do Jade’s choreography in that routine. She definitely has specific movements on punctuated points of the music, but absolutely no passion in them. In Ponor’s routine, even when it’s just her in-the-corner arm waves that are the choreography, there’s oomph and deliberation in them that create a completely different level of feeling. It’s not my favorite routine of Ponor’s but at least there’s performance and passion there. Jade’s routine just feels so…foggy. Like she’s uncomfortable and doesn’t wanna do any of it. If someone a bit more choreographically inclined did her routine, it could be not bad. But Jade doing it makes me sleepy.

 

[onodian]

Like she’s uncomfortable and doesn’t wanna do any of it.

That’s the whole point to me. Ponor’s is rather uninspired, but she can do the movements convincingly and she’s musical.

And also, about the women having to dance, i think it totally comes from a sexist standpoint but i think we can try to be inclusive of different styles while keeping the performance aspect, which is kind of important, and generally i like it much better than mag fx, to be honest. And judging by the audience numbers mag and wag get, so does the world.