MyKayla Skinner Olympic participation

[Doug1233]

Looking at WWGym Panel on Trials Day 2 beam for Skinner (6.4, 6.5, 6.0, 6.1, 6.3) we are really really in line, considering we had between 35 and 40 tenths off each - for 5 people to be within 5 is pretty good.



USAG had 7.5, 7.5, 7.6, 7.2, 7.0

I just cannot wrap my head around it. 7.6?! That same judge gave Carey a 7.7.



I don’t get it. You don’t need to be a judge to see that Carey’s routine is CLEARLY superior execution-wise.

 

[mnesiptolema]

I am on the fence. People say things on this board (as well as on Twitter, Reddit, etc.) about gymnasts that I wouldn’t choose to say myself and if I were, say, Mykayla, and I came across comments here about vomiting because I’d made the team, I’d feel pretty rubbish. Comments like that aren’t exactly constructive.

On the other hand, athletes aren’t the intended audience of this board, and such comments are par for the course across all gymnastics-related websites and much milder than are seen in other sports. In the case of Mykayla in particular, who curates a YouTube channel, I do think that comes with the expectation that you’ll face some heat for the things you say/do. Same goes for Simone waltzing about on holiday during a pandemic and putting it on her public Instagram. She some copped flack and not all of it was, uh, measured and analytical.

WWGym required registration to read, which I thought was a good idea.

 

[Caligym]

I can forgive the things a 19 year old athlete, just left off an Olympic team, who might have commented/liked in haste on social media, especially since she seems to regret it now. But a 24 year old professional athlete with a monetized social media presence? Social media is part of her job, that she has chosen. She absolutely deserves, as anyone does in their job, to be scrutinized for her choices.(same with Simone) She isn’t a kid that gets to “like” a tweet and say, oops I was just in a mood.

And I say this as someone who does agree that the hate on her gymnastics has gotten a little excessive on here. She absolutely is in the mix for a vault medal. She has improved there and if she hits it will be deserved. Beam, on the other hand, if you can’t finish higher than 5th, in your own country’s trials, with friendly judges….

 

[Doug1233]

Oh, for sure. My ire with Skinner has never been her vault. Even back when it was one-handed.

She has always been an excellent vaulter who, despite some technical issues on the table, has incredible twisting ability and air sense.

If Skinner was going to the Olympics as a VT specialist, and her online personality made it very clear that she was going to Tokyo for vault, then I would have absolutely no qualms with her gymnastics.

 

[Denn]

I never had a chance to go back and score Trials. I just scored those two beam exercises.

Skinner: 6.2
Carey: 8.0

I was inclined to take 0.3 for some Carey’s leaps due to prejudice, but when I forced myself to watch, they were 0.1 and even 0 in some cases. Video frame rates and angles can really deceive the eye.

The idea that anyone would score those only 0.2 or even 0.7 point apart is absolutely shocking to me.

 

[Caligym]

Thanks for showing this. I don’t judge FIG, but had mid 7 for Skinner, around 8 for Carey before the dismount. Obviously Skinners dismount deduction is close to a full point while Carey’s is closer to a tenth. I think the lower range of the scores judges gave Skinner( 7.0/7.2) are at least within reason, but I have no idea how a judge could have those routines 1 tenth apart.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I thought the same about registration. Something to be said for a site with content that can’t be accessed accidentally.

 

[Dex]

these kind of comments is exactly what KristyJ means I guess… A little criticism and some of the people can get nasty. Different opinions are not always appreciated.

 

[onodian]

I am really not one to think in conspiracy terms, so I was a little unsure of this, but I just watched both routines and it truly is egregious. My question would be, what do we think is happening here? cause Carey and Skinner are judged with different pens, really. And it’s even worse cause they actually share a number of skills and combinations, that Jade (even if not particularly perfect) does clearly better than MyKayla. Plus then the dismount. There’s just no way these two scores should be close in execution. And yet they are. So, do we think the judges are getting instructions to hold up Skinner? Is that it?

In the example I posted above with SKinner and Wevers we could argue leo bonus and shitz, but what do we then think this is? I’m just trying to keep this constructive.

 

[Doug1233]

I only hope the Tokyo judges see it how we see it.

It will be interesting as they’ll literally go back to back on beam.

 

[Gymmama]

I agree with you. I was especially disgusted by the Tonya Harding comment with regards to Skinner. You can be critical of someone’s gymnastics and even the public comments they make, but some of what has been written on this forum, like that comment, has just been taken too far.

 

[Doug1233]

I really can’t explain it.

And it makes it very difficult to then have the conversation about Tom choosing Grace. Who is clearly the far superior all arounder. Because they’re scored the same.

 

[Doug1233]

Maybe for his explanation on the night, yes.

For the team members he actually picked, no. It was a reasonable pick from a set of picks that all could have also been reasonably chosen.

 

[crdubb17]

And THIS is where a lot of people’s’ criticism comes from. I could care less at this point about her racist ignorance of the past. We know who she’s shown herself to be, and it is what it is. I just hate that she’s not being judged with the same pen as others. It perpetuates her coaches’ horrible kamikaze ‘chuck everything’ BS approach because the judges don’t give a shit about her terrible form and poor technique. Nobody should be applauding this IMO. Mykayla literally has no foundational basics, and that’s not cute or anything to be proud of. It’s not fair to any of the girls who work their asses off to learn how to hit a full split with extension and actually master basic foundational technique (setting skills, posture, basic round off back handsprings). THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME E SCORES!!!

I want the Mykayla fans (who actually understand how deductions should work) to tell me with a straight face that they TRULY believe she deserved the scores she received at trials. Had she gotten the scores she actually deserved, she would not have been in the discussion for making anyone’s Olympic team. And in the same breath these people have the audacity to complain that she should’ve been on the 4 person team over Grace?! I’m dumbfounded.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Grace was a reasonable enough pick, we both called it the day before iirc. The decision to take her cannot, however, be separated from the two athletes in question not having understood what they needed to do nor from Tom having previously said he’d take the highest scoring team.

Now it’s arguably not particularly sensible of Mykayla to be liking this stuff, although if this is her final competition it’s not like she has to give a fuck about being lowballed in future. But the criticism is absolutely deserved.

Honestly there’s something quite beautiful about athletes feeling they have enough agency to stick the boot in. Similarly, Simone saying she’s 99.9% sure her skills would be rated higher if it weren’t her doing them clearly comes from a place of ignorance about the code, but her saying what the fuck she likes? Love it.

 

[Doug1233]

He didn’t say he would take the highest scoring team though. Gymcastic keeps saying this too, so I don’t blame you for thinking it.

But go back and read what Tom actually said. Not just what Jessica took from what he said.

And what does “highest scoring team” even mean?

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The highest scoring team means the one that will deliver the biggest team total, surely? And given the strength of Simone, Sunisa and Jordan, that means the highest vault scorer outside them and obviously Jade. Particularly as Suni may well be scoring competitively on floor by Tokyo- wouldn’t use her there myself, but for reasons of protection more than anything else.

As for what he said, I’ll take your word for it rather than checking myself if you don’t mind, but either way it’s a fact that multiple athletes involved in the process have said they didn’t understand what they needed to do. That inevitably has implications for fairness and it is not possible to make the decision itself something separate from the process. Criticism is deserved.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Yeah, Carey has one of the better switch 1/2s on the US team. Still a .1 probably, but definitely not a .3

 

[irichluck21]

Yes, however it is clear in the report that they want Suni off vault and floor in team finals.
Suni outscored Skinner on FX, so using Skinner drops the team total there a bit.

in the end Skinner vs McCallum for VT/FX comes up to (.2) using Skinner, based on VT.

If you take a look at team qualifications and going 4 up, the highest scoring team is with McCallum not Skinner. That does not account for dropping a score however. In case of a fall on bars or beam, McCallum provides a higher team score than Skinner.

I do think they looked not only at team finals but also qualifications and who would best fill the 4th spot on bars and beam.

That said, Tom really messed up and if he continues in his role, really does need media training. USAG execs need to hold him accountable for what he says as well.

The fact that several athletes are unhappy with him/ felt confused by him is not a good look. If USAG is serious about making changes, being transparent, and protecting athletes/listening to them then Tom needs to be much better in his communication.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Honestly I doubt they give a shit about maximising the score in qualifications. It’s because Grace is good cover anywhere if Suni ends up injured 5 minutes before prelims, plus she has an international reputation already and has been quite well received. She was a good safe choice, and that matters more than the difference between a good DTY and an Amanar.

You make a good point about media training. And once this has finished, I’d like to see USAG talk through Grace and Mykayla’s experiences and understanding with them, with a view to learning how things could be improved.