FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal) PART 2

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Translated: detailed article explaining how the Romanian lawyers handled the case at CAS, I encourage you to read the entire article

How do we know time has run out?

1. The Omega system, which was first used for these Olympic Games, records everything: hours, minutes and seconds.

So, for example, when a sportswoman is given a mark, the hour, minute/minute, second/second are recorded.

When this is displayed on the screen, the same. When a verbal challenge is made, the referee you address it to immediately records it, and the Omega system "remembers" the time you made it.

Then it's simple. It looks at what time your athlete's score was posted, then when you notified the referees that you wanted to submit a written protest, and it comes up with a result.

In the case of the U.S. challenge, one minute and four seconds. Enough for CAS to say that the action was not in accordance with the rules and decide to annul it.

If there is video evidence, as the Americans claim, that Cecile Landi verbally announced that she wanted to appeal, it will still be the official time, the time recorded by Omega, the one that will be taken into account.

How Sabrina Voinea's case was settled at CAS

1. The same Omega system brought vertical cameras to Paris, which therefore filmed the athletes from top to bottom on the floor, to see if they were stepping off the mat. So, the referees could see when the heel, in Sabrina's case, was outside the competition area, but they couldn't see if it was actually touching outside! And the rules clearly state that you have to touch, not just "fly over" the space behind the white line demarcating the official competition space. The footage provided by NBC television was crucial in this case.
When they got here, the Romanian lawyers have been hammering on "technology failure". That is, the referees couldn't do their job perfectly because the technology provided didn't allow them to. But the big problem was that there was no challenge during (!) the contest for this space penalty of Sabrina Voinea. And that's what FIG and the IOC latched on to.

Why? There is another, perhaps more important reason. If the Ad-hoc division panel referees had accepted this "technology flaw", then all the space (i.e. - exit from the mat) challenges during the Olympic Games would have had to be re-reviewed! How many rankings would have been changed?

Moreover, at the other floor competitions, World and European Championships, according to a referee with more than 25 years' experience, the referees see on a monitor, as if they were standing on the carpet, whether or not an athlete is stepping out of space. These competitions, however, do not work with Omega.

2. Deserves the higher grade of D (editor's note - 6 instead of 5.9). CAS doesn't have the jurisprudence and the fall to analyze scores given by referees during competitions and didn't want to set a precedent now.

CAS negotiations

The IOC has rejected the deal between Romania and the USA, who wanted all 3 gymnasts to receive the bronze medal. Why? It would have set a dangerous precedent and diminished the value of an Olympic medal.

Moreover, the International Gymnastics Federation then came up with another proposal. That only Ana Maria and Jordan Chiles take the bronze medal. CAS said the following: "How do you justify the fact that Chiles stays with the medal, but you accept that the time for the verbal challenge was exceeded, even by 4 seconds? Because that's how Ana Maria gets on the podium."





In case I missed something, you can check yourself. Btw, the golazo sport news site were celebrating yesterday that they were quoted by the New York Times:) Good for them, they had a great coverage.

 

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I'm guessing golazo means the same in Romanian as it does in Spanish (megagoal, so to speak)?

This is the most important question concerning this issue
 
I'm guessing golazo means the same in Romanian as it does in Spanish (megagoal, so to speak)?

This is the most important question concerning this issue
Yes:) Probably it means the same in most latin languages. And since I mentioned latin, I can't help mentioning the joke: "hey Romanians, are you latin? Da!:)"
I don't understand why golazo keeps covering these gymnastics controversies because football is the only sport that matters in Romania and we suck at it:) To give more details about them, the small team that started golazo were part of the oldest sport news paper In Romania, but decided to leave because they didn't agree that the betting companies had too much influence. So they started golazo and they do great sport journalism without any betting sponsors.
 
Translated: detailed article explaining how the Romanian lawyers handled the case at CAS, I encourage you to read the entire article

How do we know time has run out?

1. The Omega system, which was first used for these Olympic Games, records everything: hours, minutes and seconds.

So, for example, when a sportswoman is given a mark, the hour, minute/minute, second/second are recorded.

When this is displayed on the screen, the same. When a verbal challenge is made, the referee you address it to immediately records it, and the Omega system "remembers" the time you made it.

Then it's simple. It looks at what time your athlete's score was posted, then when you notified the referees that you wanted to submit a written protest, and it comes up with a result.

In the case of the U.S. challenge, one minute and four seconds. Enough for CAS to say that the action was not in accordance with the rules and decide to annul it.

If there is video evidence, as the Americans claim, that Cecile Landi verbally announced that she wanted to appeal, it will still be the official time, the time recorded by Omega, the one that will be taken into account.

How Sabrina Voinea's case was settled at CAS

1. The same Omega system brought vertical cameras to Paris, which therefore filmed the athletes from top to bottom on the floor, to see if they were stepping off the mat. So, the referees could see when the heel, in Sabrina's case, was outside the competition area, but they couldn't see if it was actually touching outside! And the rules clearly state that you have to touch, not just "fly over" the space behind the white line demarcating the official competition space. The footage provided by NBC television was crucial in this case.
When they got here, the Romanian lawyers have been hammering on "technology failure". That is, the referees couldn't do their job perfectly because the technology provided didn't allow them to. But the big problem was that there was no challenge during (!) the contest for this space penalty of Sabrina Voinea. And that's what FIG and the IOC latched on to.

Why? There is another, perhaps more important reason. If the Ad-hoc division panel referees had accepted this "technology flaw", then all the space (i.e. - exit from the mat) challenges during the Olympic Games would have had to be re-reviewed! How many rankings would have been changed?

Moreover, at the other floor competitions, World and European Championships, according to a referee with more than 25 years' experience, the referees see on a monitor, as if they were standing on the carpet, whether or not an athlete is stepping out of space. These competitions, however, do not work with Omega.

2. Deserves the higher grade of D (editor's note - 6 instead of 5.9). CAS doesn't have the jurisprudence and the fall to analyze scores given by referees during competitions and didn't want to set a precedent now.

CAS negotiations

The IOC has rejected the deal between Romania and the USA, who wanted all 3 gymnasts to receive the bronze medal. Why? It would have set a dangerous precedent and diminished the value of an Olympic medal.

Moreover, the International Gymnastics Federation then came up with another proposal. That only Ana Maria and Jordan Chiles take the bronze medal. CAS said the following: "How do you justify the fact that Chiles stays with the medal, but you accept that the time for the verbal challenge was exceeded, even by 4 seconds? Because that's how Ana Maria gets on the podium."





In case I missed something, you can check yourself. Btw, the golazo sport news site were celebrating yesterday that they were quoted by the New York Times:) Good for them, they had a great coverage.

I might be missing something here but

1. If the Omega system records everything, wouldnt they have a record of how long it took for the enquiry to be made? And if so, shouldn't that be what is used to determine this not the home footage each country has arrived with?

2. Using this system to track OOBs was a complete farce and it cannot happen again.
 
I might be missing something here but

1. If the Omega system records everything, wouldnt they have a record of how long it took for the enquiry to be made? And if so, shouldn't that be what is used to determine this not the home footage each country has arrived with?

2. Using this system to track OOBs was a complete farce and it cannot happen again.
1. Yes, only the official time keeper Omega is the only one that matters. The Romanian lawyers were claiming that the American inquiry was 24 seconds late. It didn't matter. Only Omega matters, it will be the same for any American video evidence.
 
what, and not wildly speculate? how will we kill our time?

Btw:

Clearly out of time as @MRR said (Zhou). I could not find a replay but you can see it here. Can Italy appeal this non-deduction?
 
But speaking of Simone, I am surprised it took 67 pages of discussion to get to the part where we talk about how a Biles inquiry likely would have changed her to a gold as well.
I REALLY wanted Simone to get her floor gold back, but I don't think she would have wanted to get a gold via inquiry. She seems at peace with the result given her injury circumstances.
 
What if the person who accepts the inquiry types slowly? This system doesn't make any sense vs. an automatic timer countdown starting from when the score is posted.
The person doesn't need to type anything, he probably has to touch/press a button and it automatically records the time of the inquiry. I mean, I assume this, of course, because it wouldn't make sense to be otherwise. This is digital time. Imagine they have a button in an app: "Inquiry received". Omega has to certify that the time on the tablet/app is the correct one.

And yes, it would be good to have a public countdown timer that is displayed at the same time with the score on the board. Kinda like "Time to submit inquiry" or something. Hopefully we will get a more transparent process.
 
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They would have had evidence of the 64 seconds before making that ruling. They can't make a ruling initially without evidence supporting their decision so it's not like they just plucked it from thin air.

Now because the US has their own video, it doesnt mean theirs is instantly the correct one and the other one was wrong. There will (at least should) be some sort of investigation or trial to determine which video shows the true series of events.

After the complete hash that FIG has made with oob and timing decisions - it would not be a shock that they have made mistakes here.

Perhaps the judge didn't enter the inquiry until a few seconds later. If you receive a verbal inquiry (as is the rule) - by the time it is typed into the system it will be a few seconds later. Perhaps they had not accurately noticed the time the verbal inquiry was made not realising that decisions would be made down to the second

It sounds as though USA might have obtained raw time stamped footage - question is why FIG/IOC didn't do this knowing that the inquiry timing was a central issue of the Romanian complaint?
 
Translated: Update from the article I mentioned early

Omega and Longines systems

Sources inside the referees' technical committee say that the Longines system, the one used at the World Championships, is much more efficient. It shuts down automatically after the minute of a possible verbal challenge by the coach of the last athlete in a final.
The Omega, as far as we know, does not do the same. It does not close automatically after the regulation minute, and for this reason challenges can still be registered. Also, the vertical cameras of this system make it very difficult for the referees to detect if an athlete has overstepped.
 
1. Why are we hearing all of this from a Romanian lawyer and not an official CAS report?

2. So hypothetically, if an inquiry is verbally requested at 57 seconds and the WTC/panel take 4 seconds to enter it into the system, that does not meet the letter of the law even though the COP mentions no such requirement or timing system and the very people utilizing the timing system did not feel it extended past their own time limit? Incredible.
 
1. Yes, only the official time keeper Omega is the only one that matters. The Romanian lawyers were claiming that the American inquiry was 24 seconds late. It didn't matter. Only Omega matters, it will be the same for any American video evidence.
This is crazy.
 

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