British WAG (and MAG!) talk

[MaryClare]

Unless they get injured, Alice and Ondine are locks. The other 3 gymnasts could be anyone from a list of 10.

Numbers wise, I don’t think GB are spread thin. They just have a whole load of gymnasts who are a bit below par for a top 5 nation, and bring different things to the team.

 

[J175]

But also, this is just how a lot of teams look now. Every minor WAG team medal this quad has been won by a team who rely heavily on their superstar. That's been a more successful cohort than the teams who are more balanced like Japan. The talk is about GB because the others still have theirs available, but GB are better off than Canada or France would be in this situation and probably no worse than Brazil. A team of Kinsella, Achampong, GMF, Evans and Downie could break 163 without anyone doing anything remarkable.

Just look at Belgium, 5th in qualifications in Tokyo, now if they are unlucky they might not even get a single individual to Paris. Remember as well the last time Brazil competed without Andrade they failed to qualify for Tokyo.

GB's depth isn't great, but few other countries are much better. Fingers crossed there will be no more injuries.

 

[RAFIKI]

But also, this is just how a lot of teams look now. Every minor WAG team medal this quad has been won by a team who rely heavily on their superstar. That's been a more successful cohort than the teams who are more balanced like Japan. The talk is about GB because the others still have theirs available, but GB are better off than Canada or France would be in this situation and probably no worse than Brazil.

This is a really good point. Also prime fodder for any bored number crunchers. It would be interesting to compare the scores +/- the stars.

 

[MaryClare]

Bit of everything. Injury crisis years aren't uncommon, 2018 springs to mind, but as well as that there's also the Covid stuff.

In England, where most GB athletes live, after the first couple of months the very top athletes were able to train even when there were later lockdowns and local restrictions. Whereas the exemptions in the rules didn't cover people who weren't already at the top of their game. I forget the exact wording, but it meant athletes who'd have turned senior this quad faced many more limits on their training than those already in national squads. So it's not a surprise that it's been a weak couple of years for new seniors breaking through. Also some clubs have gone to pot.

But also, this is just how a lot of teams look now. Every minor WAG team medal this quad has been won by a team who rely heavily on their superstar. That's been a more successful cohort than the teams who are more balanced like Japan. The talk is about GB because the others still have theirs available, but GB are better off than Canada or France would be in this situation and probably no worse than Brazil.

As a rough guide to the situation for GB gymnasts

March 2020- June 2020: no training beyond what could be done at home. Max Whitlock put a pommel horse in his back garden.

June 2020- November 2020: athletes on the senior national team are permitted to return to the gym

November 2020- March 2021: back to training at home

March 2021- September 2021: senior national team allowed to train again

September 2021-December 2021: recreational indoor sport resumes. This is the first time that junior and development national team members, plus elites not on the the national team have been allowed to train in a gym.

December 2021-March 2022: back to only the senior national team being allowed to train.

We are beginning to see the impact that covid restrictions had on junior athletes, but this is only the start of it. The gymnasts who’ll be turning senior next quad will have been 8, 9, 10 and 11 years old in 2020 and will have missed out on what is probably the most crucial time in the development of artistic gymnasts. Many coaches have observed that a significant number of young artistic gymnasts came back post pandemic and switched to different disciplines

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Just look at Belgium, 5th in qualifications in Tokyo, now if they are unlucky they might not even get a single individual to Paris. Remember as well the last time Brazil competed without Andrade they failed to qualify for Tokyo.

GB's depth isn't great, but few other countries are much better. Fingers crossed there will be no more injuries.

Australia are another good example. Without Georgia Godwin, they wouldn't have a full team in Paris. One for @RAFIKI's bored number crunching!

And it doesn't necessarily even have to be as drastic as an injury. Just the superstar having a bad day could be enough to hamper any medal chances. It's that unpredictable. I know I as good as ruled GB out a couple of pages ago, but actually I think we probably have to work on the assumption that if you're in the final you're in the mix. We've got to the point now where the surprise would be there not being a surprise bronze.

 

[Gymfan93]

i suspect thé minor medals may come down to who can stay on beam again.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Could well do. GB actually had a beam fall in both 2021 and 2022, but that was with both Gadirovas.

 

[KorbutFan]

So it looks like Fragapane has hung up her leotard as well.

Won’t miss her gymnastics but sentimentally I’m kinda sad.

 

[RedBirdie]

 

[Joe]

Why are so many of these girls retiring at a time when they seem to have as good a chance as they might get to be on the team?

Has there been an Olympic squad announced that they aren’t invited to? Or am I totally not getting something?

 

[irichluck21]

Why are so many of these girls retiring at a time when they seem to have as good a chance as they might get to be on the team?

None of them have a chance at Paris though.
Fragapane, Archer, and Simm would need 4-5 more members to be injured to be given a shot.

Both Jen and Jess are on the mend, and we don't know what their physical shape will be in and what they can compete in a few months.

Achampong, Kinsella, Fenton, Evans, and Downie are a strong and solid A team.
Morgan is back and going for Paris- she would make the team over any of the retired 3.
Ruby Stacey has competed at 2 World Championships for GBR. Abigail Martin competed at Jr. Worlds last year and was 5th AA. Both of them have a strong change at Paris.

So there are 10 in the mix for Paris already, given no further injuries.
I would assume a 80% healthy Jess Gadirova would be taken over one of the three.

While there is no Olympic training squad that I am aware of, the athletes that retired wouldn't be on it if there was one.

 

[RedBirdie]

Jess didn't have surgery until December. I can't envision any scenario where she's in the running.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Alice's Amanar



I think this one would probably now get credited, albeit it's still a bit knee endangering.

 

[Bob]

Why are so many of these girls retiring at a time when they seem to have as good a chance as they might get to be on the team?

Has there been an Olympic squad announced that they aren’t invited to? Or am I totally not getting something?

I think Kelly and Frags haven't been in training for ages. I think they announce retirement as late as possible to hang on to funding. It might also coincide with fig licenses renewal or something like that.

 

[Doug1233]

Did anyone manage to save Becky's bars that she posted on IG yesterday? I think she posted it and then took the post down (not sure why) but I had it at 6.7D and 8.1 E (14.8) if you credit the Ricna half (which, tbh, looked iffy). If she can upgrade the second Ricna to a Downie, then the problem largely goes away.

In any event, Becky is GB's best hope at a WAG medal and they'd be crazy not to take her if Jess isn't back to full fitness.

 

[Joe]

I think Kelly and Frags haven't been in training for ages. I think they announce retirement as late as possible to hang on to funding. It might also coincide with fig licenses renewal or something like that.

Ah thanks, that would make sense.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Did anyone manage to save Becky's bars that she posted on IG yesterday? I think she posted it and then took the post down (not sure why) but I had it at 6.7D and 8.1 E (14.8) if you credit the Ricna half (which, tbh, looked iffy). If she can upgrade the second Ricna to a Downie, then the problem largely goes away.

In any event, Becky is GB's best hope at a WAG medal and they'd be crazy not to take her if Jess isn't back to full fitness.

Is this it?



Becky says in the comments that the D score is 6.6

 

[Doug1233]

Oh yes, it's 6.6:

DF1D2D1E2
ED1
E
D2

Was doing the math on a post-it note (maybe I was incorrectly counting the 9th D).

She's in a world of trouble if they don't credit the Ricna 1/2. She needs to pike one of the two Ricnas.

I have an 8.1 E (assuming 0.1 on the landing). Anyone else?

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

She absolutely has to address the Ricna issue. None of us have the emotional or spiritual resilience necessary to cope with a whole season of that composition.

 

[Concorde]

She's in a world of trouble if they don't credit the Ricna 1/2. She needs to pike one of the two Ricnas.

I have an 8.1 E (assuming 0.1 on the landing). Anyone else?

Piking the Ricnas will actually not help Downie's D score if the 1/2 turn is downgraded due to the Tkatchev 'root' principle(same rule that prevents a gymnast from receiving credit for both a Tkatchev and a piked Tkatchev in the same routine).

Scenario 1
Ricna 1/2 / Derwael / Fenton -> downgraded to Ricna
Downie / piked Ricna = no DV

Scenario 2
piked Ricna 1/2 -> downgraded to piked Ricna
Ricna = no DV

Here are my deductions:

toe-on full
(lack of precision / turn off-axis), 0.1

grip adjustment (prior to Derwael / Fenton), 0.1

Derwael / Fenton
(body posture / flexed feet), 0.1
(lack of precision / incomplete turn), 0.1

Ezhova
(insufficient height), 0.3
(lack of precision / incomplete turn before regrasp), 0.1

Hindorff
(body posture / flexed feet), 0.1
(insufficient height / hips at bar height prior to regrasp), 0.1
(bent arms upon regrasp), 0.1

cast to handstand with legs straddled
(body posture / piked hips), 0.1

Ricna
(body posture / flexed feet), 0.1

cast to handstand with legs straddled
(body posture / piked hips), 0.1

van Leeuwen
(lack of precision / incomplete turn before regrasp), 0.1

cast to handstand with legs straddled
(body posture / piked hips), 0.1

grip adjustment (prior to giant), 0.1

full twisting double tuck dismount
(step on landing), 0.1

Total Deductions - 1.8 -> E, 8.2