2023 World Junior Gymnastic Artistic Championships (3/29-4/2, Antalya, Turkiye)

[Hatsumomo]

Yeah, I’m trying to see if there was going to be some sort of conflict with a chunk of the federations that necessitated Junior Worlds to be held this early, but I don’t think so. Pan-American Games and Asian Games are in the fall, Euros are next week, and they don’t give a fig about individual countries’ national competitions to make a schedule around them (and the USA Classic and Nationals are in August anyway).

And speaking of junior-senior mixed comps, what happened to the Pacific Rim championships? It was one of the few continental competitions that the USA had. 2020 was canceled for obvious reasons, but it looks like there’s no move to bring it back.

 

[J175]

I suspect Antalya volunteered to host (or the FIG reached out to them) to use the same venues and hotels the week before Euros - it probably saved a lot of work (and money) organising it.

 

[MaryClare]

Yes and if you look at some of the gymnasts who did compete at worlds in the year they turned 15. Memmel, Patterson, Johnson, Semenova. It’s not as insignificant as the FIG likes to believe. It was also the removal of the grandfather clause that led to the ridiculous Minsk Juan Capistrano situation.

Pac Rim is an interesting one, because on paper it should be the top competition in the world outside of worlds and Olympics. But it never took off as such

 

[Hatsumomo]

What was the Minsk Juan Capistrano situation?

You’re right about Pac Rim. It’s a competition where the top federations + several of the “on the verge” teams were eligible. Even now with a banned Russia, it could still be a great competition with Japan and Canada having made huge steps into solid B-team status.

 

[MaryClare]

When Kylie Dickson and Alaina Kwan became citizens of Belarus so they could in 2015 get Belarus an Olympic spot for a promising junior Belarus had who didn’t turn senior until 2016.

In the end, the junior who I’ve completely forgotten, ended up injured and retired so Kylie Dickson ended up going to the Olympics.

Utterly bizarre situation, given that every other Olympic sport in Belarus just gets some 3rd tier Russians. It’s even used as a threat in some sports here. If you don’t do better you’ll be on the train to Minsk

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

I remember that the USA would always show up very to the International Gymnix in Montreal very well-prepared and that event was also in March.

 

[MaryClare]

Yes. In it’s heyday, gymnix attracted many top juniors from all over the world

 

[Dex]

Only the Americans were affected by the pandemic, sure… they are just not good right now. i’m sure they get more consistent as they get older. Junior worlds have never really shown the dominance of American senior gymnastics…

 

[J175]

Gymnix isn’t officially dead yet, but it was cancelled this year because not enough teams entered. They have set a date for next year, but who knows.

Same problem for Pac Rims, the top WAG teams and athletes don’t compete enough to sustain all these competitions. Gymnix want teams, Stuttgart have been getting them recently, Jesolo couldn’t get the USA this year, the FIG would like them at the World Cups (those that still exist anyway, as it seems the AA World Cups are dead), the actual top US seniors are competing in NCAA now, obviously no one can get Russia at the moment. All these events taking place in the same part of the calendar can’t be helping.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Oh, okay. I’ve never heard it referred to as that. I just call it the Belarus Thing.

 

[RedBirdie]

I remember that the USA would always show up very to the International Gymnix in Montreal very well-prepared and that event was also in March.

Back in the days of Marta. Where a fall at some C-level meet could end your elite career (unless you were Aly Raisman, in which case repeatedly fall at worlds and still make team after team)

 

[ruby]

There is no reason for the US not to hold a friendly invitational with 2 or 3 countries for juniors (and seniors) every year. They stopped doing that way before Covid - probably because they were so dominant. Now is a different story though. The juniors don’t seem to be as strong and they would definitely profit from some low-key international experience before being thrown into junior worlds where they were probably still expected to dominate.

 

[tempest]

Back in the days of Marta. Where a fall at some C-level meet could end your elite career (unless you were Aly Raisman, in which case repeatedly fall at worlds and still make team after team)

While I guess Aly did redeem herself numerous times, what did Mihai have over Marta so Aly had those chances? Was it it Romanian thing?

 

[irichluck21]

The juniors don’t seem to be as strong and they would definitely profit from some low-key international experience before being thrown into junior worlds where they were probably still expected to dominate.

This is also a new top group of seniors as the previous top group almost all became senior this year. Jayla Hang finished 2nd at nationals last year but was a new junior.
They were also used to Johnson, Caylor, Zhou and Sumansekera being the ones assigned to meets.

Hang, despite finishing 2nd at nationals last year went to Worlds for her first ever international assignment. Still she was close to winning the AA had it not been for that floor fall.

 

[MaryClare]

I don’t think a Romanian thing, but that they have a friendship of sorts. Maybe not close friends but I remember reading that when Mihai and Silvia were first moving to America that Marta/Bela suggested the Boston area since it was well off but lacking in elite gymnastics facilities and coaches.

Sabrina Vega on the other hand…sure the US was not exactly awash with healthy elites for 2011 worlds. But Márta is clearly super fond of Teodora still. Plus the story goes that Teodora distracted the body guards whilst Bela and Marta escaped.

 

[tempest]

Sabrina got lucky didn’t she that Bross and Asac got injured… it slightly bothers me that Sabrina has a gold medal at Worlds and Bross doesn’t

 

[irichluck21]

Sabrina got lucky didn’t she that Bross and Asac got injured

Not really. Vega was named to the team in 2011. Sacramone getting injured did nothing for Vega. The US competed 5 athletes in 2011, Anna Li was the alternate and did not get put it because she was also injured.
Bross’ injury cleared the way for Douglas to be named to the team though, and Douglas was originally the alternate until Li had the ab injury and Marta swapped her for Douglas.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Aly was always a rock in TFs, which I expect must’ve softened the blow slightly. She saved most of her fuckups for the all around.

 

[MaryClare]

I think it comes down to confidence in the coach. Marta was probably thinking yeah, Mihai gets me, he’s knows what I want and I trust him to sort out his athlete.

I don’t think it’s particularly because he’s also Romanian, I think she had the same trust for Liukin and Chow.

Off topic but I really, really wish Marta would write a book. I get that she’s been a hugely controversial figure, right from the 70s in Romania up to the Nassar abuse, but she’d had some stories to tell

 

[RedBirdie]

Heath Thorpe had some feelings about Gymnova vaults on twitter: