2023 Winter Cup

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

At major FIG events, on BB and FX, the E-deductions are entered on the score-pad as two separate deductions - artistry, followed by execution. So, theorectially, the scoreboard could show D-score, E-score and ‘A-score’ (A being artistry).

 

[cftmoonlight79]

I think i enjoyed some of the level 10 Nastia cup floor routines more than the elite Winter cup ones.

 

[onodian]

I honestly don’t think it’s humanly possible to evaluate all they have to do through the exercise and then go through that list in a careful, considered way. So, not impressed with this approach.

 

[KristyJ]

I didn’t take for precision on the dance elements, though I did take for body shape in the split full (back leg higher) where you didn’t. I also took only .1 for the double layout shape, and I gave her the wolf double but as I noted I could see calling that a fall or deducting for balance. I didn’t take for the pause but I could see how one might. And I did not take for upper body posture.

 

[Doug1233]

At major FIG events, on BB and FX, the E-deductions are entered on the score-pad as two separate deductions - artistry, followed by execution. So, theorectially, the scoreboard could show D-score, E-score and ‘A-score’ (A being artistry).

Right! That’s why we want them to release the Judges Book publicly. The Rio and London books have been released (not sure if they were leaks or legit releases) but we never got the Tokyo book and it’s fishy…

 

[Doug1233]

I didn’t take for precision on the dance elements

They were all short and downgraded, so you should have I think?

I don’t want to do screenshots but I think the Double Wolf was short, even before the wobble back/clever choreo.

I also took only .1 for the double layout shape

My 3 was for body posture (chest) on landing. I also only took 1 for shape.

 

[KristyJ]

Her body was fully around and to be honest I didn’t have an interest in measuring whether her toes were one inch off in the wolf turn, especially since I was already tempted to call it a fall
Given the brevet judges gave her a 7.5, and many of the other deductions were more obvious, I imagine they weren’t taking much on precision either (clearly they also didn’t call it a fall)
Edit- Side note but Disidore befuddles me. She clearly has ability, but it’s always just messy.

 

[Doug1233]

I imagine they weren’t taking much on precision either (clearly they also didn’t call it a fall)

I was more referring to the Switch Full and Gogean attempts.

 

[KristyJ]

Had to get my brain off of “Popa” and onto “Gogean,” because apparently I transpose twisting leaps named for Romanians. I can see precision on these two that you mention, now that I look back at it. I think I got myself so distracted by the wolf turn I didn’t count them initially (I was also judging without marking it down, a bad habit I have online as it means I need to do math and note errors at the same time and relies on photographic memory, I should really mark them properly but rarely feel I have time to).

 

[Doug1233]

Gorgeous arm placement in her Memmel at 0:45.

 

[Denn]

So probably a 0.8 deduction. LOL

 

[Sparklesmom]

Wow that’s rude. you are talking about a 12 year old CHILD, you know? I pray to God that neither she or her parents read this. And we wonder why athletes are at such high risk of depression and suicide. HMMM- I don’t wonder- I mean if some random on the internet is making fun of how a CHILD WALKS. Good grief. I worry for society. Sigh

 

[xxParkerxx]

Honestly that response is a little extreme. I’m 14. If someone said this to or about me, I’d simply work even harder to fix it. Depression and suicide takes this conversation to a whole different level.

 

[MaryClare]

Yes, her walk and posture need correcting. If you read my posts on the subject, my criticism has been directed solely at those responsible for having her compete elite at this stage in her development. There are legitimate concerns for the way in which she performs skills. As you’ve so passionately pointed out, she’s a 12 year old child. She isn’t the one making the decisions here and is not at fault.

It is somewhat ironic that whilst preaching about “being kind” towards athletes, you’ve inferred that I’ve potentially caused depression or suicidal thoughts in a child. Did it occur to you the impact that might have on me?

If athletes have a higher tendency for depression and suicide, it’s because the people around them are failing them, not because someone criticised their performance on a message board.

 

[Bob]

This is a gymnastics forum discussing gymnastics performances. That includes criticism and corrections needed not just rainbows and sparkles. Child is not at fault here but the coaches are.

 

[MaryClare]

Well said Bob

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Sure but there’s nothing constructive about comparing someone to a six year old

 

[MaryClare]

It’s not intended to be constructive, that isn’t my job, nor anyone on a message board despite some having notions above their station! As I’ve pointed out, my criticism throughout has been of coaches, and to a lesser degree, parents.

6 year old is the level of the presentation of the routine. I know this because I work in a children’s sports school teaching technical and foundation dance to 6-10 year gymnasts. Maybe 1 in 10 of them will go on to reach the acrobatic level of an elite. But every single one of them shows a higher standard of dance and presentation than shown in that routine. Even the ones for whom it doesn’t come naturally. This contrasts starkly with the skill level being attempted and the absolute negligence of her coaches. You do not allow a gymnast attain the acrobatic skills of a junior elite when their mastery of basic posture, dance and presentation is that of a child half their age. It’s WRONG. It’s irresponsible

It is completely different from say discussing a 12 year old competing in a very low grade

 

[KristyJ]

To be fair, the conversation about her did get unnecessarily pointed. We’ve certainly seen worse on the elite world stage, she’s by no means the most awkward mover we’ve seen out there in the US or internationally. She has some dance and posture basics to work on. We didn’t need to rake a pre-teen over the coals like we did, as though being self-righteous about the lower tier of newly qualified elites somehow does us good. There are valid criticisms about the coaching staff (and I would say USAG’s developmental priorities, I still remember “We give them just enough ballet to get by” from a regional judging seminar and how short-sighted I felt that was), but it’s by no means so much worse than other things we see at the level. I doubt that six year olds, regardless of their dance skill, are throwing 2/1 fronts, so saying she’s like a six year out there is both disingenuous and insulting to the work she has done.

 

[onodian]

Yeah i also thought the criticism was a little undeserved, i just watched the first 45 sec or so but for general inability to dance or posture i always prefer referring to our current fx Olympic champion