2023 Pan Am Gymnastics Championship (Worlds Qualifier) May 26-28

[Bob]

not really at top fig international competitions though. A very minor world cup, an invitational and Panams not against any big names. And she got beat by the other US apart from floor.

 

[irichluck21]

This is divine!!! Heart me some Nola. I had 0 artistry deductions.

 

[RichardL]

Obsessed with this! But that L hop is a problem…

 

[RichardL]

This quad is feeling very 1996 in that the core team is so clear that all the beautiful gymnasts just on the outside feel like they’re just working for the chance in case someone drops. Matthews is a huge catch for other teams. I feel like a team of Matthews, Roberson, Sumanasekera, Miller, and then whoever doesn’t make the main team from Wong/DiCello/Blakely/McClain (assuming Carey, Chiles, Lee, and Jones make up the core of that team, but who knows) would be an insanely strong B-team.

 

[RichardL]

As I typed that lol, I realized that the B-team would also include three of the bubble gymnasts for the fifth spot. So, a start to a very strong C-team. Let’s say McClain makes the main team because that’s what I wish would happen, then you have a B-team of Wong DiCello Blakely + (based on team strengths) Roberson and Miller, then you have Matthews, Sumanasekera, Zeiss, and then probably Fatta or a wild card among so many gymnasts that it’s not worth listing them. The US has the depth right now, at least in terms of not being in danger of not being able to put up a team. The European powerhouses (GBR and ITA) seem to be focused on a very centralized group of gymnasts in comparison.

 

[KristyJ]

It’s nuts in that you could make it down to the C team and still have vault event finalists, as Roberson, Wong, and Fatta all have good enough vaulting that if they were competing for any other country they’d be looking at that possibility each event. And then, of course, you have the other events covered, too. Miller, Matthews, Wong, Blakely, and DiCello all have really excellent bars. Blakely and Sumanasekeera cover beam. Most of them have excellent floor. It’s crazy that they could all do at least an one event well enough that if they were to make the team for worlds/Olympics, we’d have a solid chance of seeing them in team finals.

 

[MaryClare]

Depth is useful in an injury crisis, but it’s basically a waste. Will be interesting to see how it plays out for the US as gymnasts competing elite well into their 20s/alongside NCAA is becoming the norm

 

[RedBirdie]

This is divine!!! Heart me some Nola. I had 0 artistry deductions.

Nola Matthews USA Floor Exercise Team Final 2023 Pan Am Championships

She’s wonderful on floor. I just can’t understand how she and Roberson keep ending up with similar E scores.

 

[KristyJ]

How is it a waste? I imagine none, or very few, of these athletes are like “I wasted my time doing this sport if I don’t make the top five in a specific two competitions.”

 

[gymfan]

Apparently judging on acrobatics have been lenient since worlds 2022. The pauses in corner are factored in the execution deductions, but perhaps should have slightly higher E score.

 

[MaryClare]

Because the system means that these athlete’s talents are not rewarded in the elite world. They are in the form of college scholarships, in the NCAA world. Which is the only reason such depth exists. It’s of little benefit to the US National team, because they cannot utilise it.

Perhaps squandered is a better term than wasted, but wasted is not the same thing as waste of time

 

[Doug1233]

I had 0 artistry deductions.

Unfortunately, I’d take corners. But she ticks all the other boxes, for me.

But that L hop is a problem…

Because it is under-turned? I think the shape is nice, but she’s clearly not holding the L for the full 360.

C team and still have vault event finalists, as Roberson

You’re living in my fantasy land where Roberson is in the C team. She’s in the A team, unfortunately.

She’s wonderful on floor. I just can’t understand how she and Roberson keep ending up with similar E scores.

Right.

 

[irichluck21]

Because the system means that these athlete’s talents are not rewarded in the elite world. They are in the form of college scholarships, in the NCAA world. Which is the only reason such depth exists. It’s of little benefit to the US National team, because they cannot utilise it.

A majority of these athletes primary goal is to get an NCAA scholarship and elite is just another goal before college. I don’t agree that USAG is wasting the depth, they have sent various athletes to international assignments which allows for other athletes to be rested.

Unlike the previous Marta era where she sent the same group of gymnasts to everything. I would agree with you that Marta wasted a lot of talent. However, it appears that Dan, Alicia, and Chellsie have a different philosophy and are actually using the depth as it should be used.

Additionally, the current depth is because USAG is working with NCAA athletes so they can do both NCAA and elite, whereas with Marta it was one or the other and gymnasts had to make a choice for one or the other.

Also, athletes have a voice and can determine their own path and can decide if they want to go for a team or to pass on it and just attend camp. That was not allowed with Marta.

 

[gymfan]

Totally agree. The NCAA scholarship means a lot to athletes. I like how they invest the young gymnasts by sending them to international competitions, while allowing veteran gymnasts to compete in NCAA and elite. Even gymnasts may not join the worlds team, they can still find joy and success in NCAA or other international competitions. Also, injuries or other unexpected things can often appear, like Zeiss and Miller this year. Developing depth is good for the program’s longevity and competitiveness.

 

[RichardL]

re: Nola’s L leap, I think it’s beautiful but she needs to learn to over-turn it because judges IMO have been super harsh on non-split leap rotation.

 

[MaryClare]

They certainly seem to be doing what they can to give more opportunities, within the current framework of the sport. But it contrasts with the 80s and early 90s when teams were 6 or 7 people, 3 could qualify to the AA and there were both more international competitions, and they were of a higher prestige.

The way things are set up now, almost punishes any country that has depth (chiefly the US) and the opportunities that NCAA brings, kind of masks that.

 

[irichluck21]

I see what you are saying, but there are a great deal of these athletes that make the push from level 10 to elite because it generally opens the door in terms of recruitment, especially to the top tier teams. Qualifying to elite is a huge goal accomplished just in itself.

 

[navyblue]

I think depth will actually come to be more of a national asset over the years as we see the trend in gymnastics toward longevity rather than a brand new set of rising stars each and every quad.

So for gymnasts like Joscelyn Roberson, winning these World Cup medals is probably quite encouraging – and even if she has a very limited chance at the most prestigious events for the rest of the quad, it could very well inform her decision to stick around longer and potentially have a better shot in years to come.

This is also in line with the objective of creating more opportunities for more athletes, which is good for the growth of the sport in general. Probably hard for us oldhead fans to accept, but I foresee a transition to where some random gym fan’s TikTok videos of a gold medal-winning routine from a random World Cup could be just as influential to a young person as it once was to see live TV broadcasts of the Olympics.

 

[Snowfan]

Roberson reminds me of Sacramone in that she was a few months shy to be needed for the 04 olympics but really nailed the next quad. I could see that sort of thing happening with Roberson.

 

[Doug1233]

Oh god.