Widespread Russian Sports Doping

[rlayt]

Do we think the Russians are doping the male and female gymnasts too? If it’s as widespread as it appears to be I would say at least a few artistic gymnasts must be.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

This has come up a lot in the last few days.

I wouldn’t put it past them ethically, but there’s no evidence we have any real doping problem in artistic gymnastics. Positive drugs tests just don’t come up that often, whereas in other sports there are people getting busted all the time. I don’t think all the dopers in eg athletics get caught, but it happens frequently enough for it to be clear there’s a big problem. We get what, one or two a year?

So what I mean is, if there were frequent drug cases in this sport, I could well believe Russia were doing it and just doing a better job at concealment than Oleg, Hong Su Jong etc. As there’s not, there’d have to be something going on that meant they were much less likely to get detected in AG. Basically I wouldn’t trust them not to do it if the opportunity was there, but is it? That’s a question btw not a statement.

 

[onodian]

Not to derail this topic but even though this question has crossed my mind, I find myself coming back more to the same kinds of questions I had when watching the Athlete A documentary. are these sports even possible? Shouldn’t we just ban anyone under 18 and at least hope that we will be able to shield some of the people from this? the doping is a hard subject, for sure, but when I think of all the people probably scarred by this whole ideal of the prodigy child… at least it looks a bit like we’re moving away from that in gymnastics

 

[irichluck21]

At this point, there is a Youth Olympics.
So perhaps it is time that there is a minimum age 18 for all Olympic sports and if you are under you compete at the Youth Olympics/ Junior Worlds. Of course, the Youth Olympics would have to change requirements, at least for gymnastics I believe the age cut off is 15 for ladies and 17 for men.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Mmm I think no under 18s is where we might end up.

I used to be against age limits on the grounds that not all countries would have to observe them so they were innately unfair. But with the increasing internetisation of everything I don’t think that’s true of anyone other than North Korea now. And they’re a law unto themselves and a special case. I really doubt China are still doing it.

 

[JDB]

My barely informed estimate is that 20% of gymnasts worldwide used a banned substance within the past year. I think Russia’s in line with the global average. I doubt doping in gymnastics is as well coordinated as in sports like road cycling. Artur Dalaloyan (in 2021) is the only Russian gymnast who stands out as being suspicious.

 

[Doug1233]

Artur Dalaloyan (in 2021) is the only Russian gymnast who stands out as being suspicious

Do tell…?!

 

[rlayt]

Wasn’t it suspicious that he came back so quickly from a complete Achilles tear?

 

[MaryClare]

Without saying very much more, it is only a matter of time with regards to gymnastics. MAG rather than WAG

 

[Doug1233]

This issue with Valieva will have made them much smarter re: avoiding doping around the dates of the tests. Or keep a tighter grip on internal doping testing.

 

[JDB]

Interesting. The top Russian men don’t show obvious signs of doping for hypertrophy. While US men do. I wonder what you’re ominous comment implies.

 

[onodian]

Without saying very much more

This is not gonna cut it, Mary, let’s hear whatever you have to say. I don’t care if it’s wild speculation or full fledged fantasy, after this week in figure skating i need more drama in my gym

 

[Doug1233]

. The top Russian men don’t show obvious signs of doping for hypertrophy

They aren’t necessarily taking muscle building PEDs.

 

[Puffin]

Oleg Verniev is currently banned for a cardiac medicine isn’t he? Meldonium?

 

[Doug1233]

Anything that allows you to train harder for longer is a PED.

Gymnastics is about repetitions.

If you can do 10 bar routines a day, instead of 8, every day, for months, those extra repetitions add up.

 

[Seyonne]

Is there a drug that would heal an achilles or other injuries faster? If there is, why ban it? What exactly is the line between PED and just plain old medical care?

 

[Doug1233]

I guess maybe like, growth hormone? I doubt it though.

Re: Arthur - I think he was just fucking reckless and threw the dice and was lucky as fuck to make it through without getting hurt.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

There is also the question of whether he actually had a full Achilles tear anyway. People seem very ready to believe that, but I’ve seen both full and partial mentioned and it’s not like any of us would actually know.

 

[onodian]

I mean we know for certain they weren’t using endurance enhancing doping on grishina, komova or nabieva. Or if they were, they weren’t using them right.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I remember reading somewhere that meldonium was supposed to help with injury recovery. The mind boggles.