Suni Lee new UB combo (training)

[tsarinajen]

Mode, feel free to move if you’d rather it be in NCAA.

This should be worth more because I love it!

 

[rlayt]

I can’t wait to see her in elite again.

 

[Doug1233]

I hope they don’t give that that grip adjustment on the high bar a 0.1 deduction…

 

[tsarinajen]

But the seitz being caught in mixed grip is the skill… it shouldn’t be deducted.

 

[makam]

Would a mixed grip bhardwaj be a) possible and/or b) a new thing?

 

[Sanzhirovka]

They will. How could they not?

 

[Doug1233]

They should add an exception for a Seitz.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

Did Seitz not catch in regular grip (WC 2011)? I think it was Mustafina who did it in WC 2013 to mixed and adjusted the grip.

 

[tsarinajen]

No Seitz caught it in regular grip.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

Yes, that is what I said - Seitz in regular grip in 2011 and Mustafina in mixed in 2013 - but judges were told not to deduct the the 0,10 for the change of grip.

 

[Doug1233]

I love it. Does that directive continue?

 

[navyblue]

Is there a judging standard that would make it be judged differently than this relatively common sequence: kip, grip change to reverse, cast handstand into front giants… ?

 

[Sanzhirovka]

It depends on how the gymnast is shifting her hands, A “hop grip change” is in the code and not deducted. Kip-casting to a support in a mixed grip and then changing the other hand to be in a reverse grip is a deduction. But I’d not heard of judges being told to not deduct for some cases, so now I don’t know what would be correct.

But the judges probaby would have to be told not to deduct because at lest one Brevet 1 judge has told me after viewing this that she would deduct it as per how she understands the rules today. And she is an international judge almost always judging at worlds and the OG.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

I know that during the briefing in 2013 WC, judges were told it was okay to change the mixed hand, and I know that the gymnast from FIN (I think) who does either Shap or Maloney and does the the adjustment on the back swing to half-turn to Ezhova does not get deducted.

 

[Denn]

Grip adjustment ≠ grip change.

Kip-casting to a support in a mixed grip and then changing the other hand to be in a reverse grip is a deduction. […]

But the judges probaby would have to be told not to deduct because at lest one Brevet 1 judge has told me after viewing this that she would deduct it as per how she understands the rules today. And she is an international judge almost always judging at worlds and the OG.

This is yet another piece of evidence that some judges blindly follow rules when gymnastics (or common) sense would tell them to do the right thing.

But @Sanzhirovka, I appreciate you sharing it because at least we know that gymnasts will be penalized for doing reasonable things.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

I know that judges have been instructed that, in the instance of the gymnast performing HB/LB kip in regular grip and changing the hands to reverse grip whilst in the ‘fold’ position, IS a deduction for adjusted grip because, “the change of grip from regular to reverse in a cast to HS should come in the form of a hop-grip change”.

 

[Denn]

But why? It’s not unaesthetic or poor technique.

Busybody rule.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

This is yet another piece of evidence that some judges blindly follow rules when gymnastics (or common) sense would tell them to do the right thing.

I don’t think you undertand the pressure the International Judges put themselves under. As you can imagine, it takes a lot of studying to become a Brevet 1 judge. And these judges love being at the top, being elite, international judges and they all absolutely want the chance to judge at the Olympic Games.

And the rules for getting to judge at the Olympic Gamaes are pretty strict. i’m sure you know this, but I’ll mention it for others - the judges have to be within ceratin bounds with their scores to get a good rating. And that rating means a lot.

First, the judges have to judge at category 1 meets - World Championships (Sen and Jun both count, no difference), and they have to judge as D and as an E judge. And their E scores have to be within bounds. I think there is even a formula that computes how often a particular judge’s scores are in line with the other judges. If your E score is too often thrown out for being too high or too low, that really damages your chances of getting to judge the OG.

So, back to this example - unless and until Donatella and the WTC spell it out to the judges that this hand shift should not be deducted, they are going to deduct it. Because they know the rules. And they assume everyone is following the rules, so why would they unilaterally make a decision to bend the rules, especially since that will increaases the chance their score will be thrown out and thus push them down in the rankings?

In the end, the FIG is a club for national federations. And when those federations (not you and I) decide to change the rules, then that’s when the rules will change. Of course, the federations delegated a lot (if not most) of the authority for interpreting the rules to the WTC. They did not delegate that authority to individual judges on a “use your own common sense” basis.

So, it’s really not fair to say “Yes, these are the rules, but the judges should bend them when bending is The Right Thing To Do™”.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

But why? It’s not unaesthetic or poor technique.

Busybody rule.

Of course it is (a “Busybody rule”)! This transition can be so smooth and seamless that it looks even better than a hop-grip change that struggles to get into the correct position.

 

[Doug1233]

Half of the Women’s COP is a “busybody” rule.