Random vid thread

[Ms Motts]

Do we know the Australian worlds selection criteria? I had a very brief google and couldn't see. I'm wondering if it's one of those stupid requirements like BG had last year where they wanted a certain overall score with a set D minimum, so you could meet the overall score requirement but it still not count because you'd focused more on execution than difficulty.

The Event Notes on page seven of the selection policy show what selectors are prioritising for any specific event.

https://media-cdn.incrowdsports.com/e38674f1-b710-4a46-9f2a-d78d1e66c780.pdf

 

[IratePanda]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I wanted to share this documentary on Natalia Yurchenko. Although I don't understand much Russian, the visuals capture everything I loved about her gymnastics. She is easily one of my top five favorites of all time (sometimes #1, depending on my mood).

 

[Aeris]

That's only a loss of 0.1 in D-score but he could do it cleanly for 0.3 or 0.5 back in E-score.

I don't think his healy should've been given more than .1, it only has to be within 60 degrees and he appears to have grabbed the bar within that limit.

The 7.9E he got lines up with these deductions:

Jaeger - .1 feet, .3 bent arms
Tak 1/2 - .1 flow
Def - .1 pike, .3 legs, .1 bent arms
Winkler - .1 pike, .1 legs, .3 bent arms
Healy - .1 angle
Back giant - .1 hand shuffle
Dismount - .1 feet, .1 legs, .1 posture, .1 step

 

[MaryClare]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I wanted to share this documentary on Natalia Yurchenko. Although I don't understand much Russian, the visuals capture everything I loved about her gymnastics. She is easily one of my top five favorites of all time (sometimes #1, depending on my mood).

I will take a watch and summarise it

 

[IratePanda]

I will take a watch and summarise it

Thank you in advance!

 

[MaryClare]

She begins by saying that together with her coach Vladislav Rastorotsky (she refers to him as Vladislav Stepanovich, which is a mark of respect) we won everything. The use of we is quite deliberate, however I don’t know if this is an expression of her feelings or if just in keeping with typical Soviet rhetoric of the era.

During the footage of her vaulting accident at 83 worlds, she is explaining that these victories made her feel somewhat invincible and she never imagined she would sustain an injury so serious that it would result in a 6 month break from training and having to regain her fitness.

In their home gym, Rastorotsky is shown greeting his younger gymnasts during training. Although he has quite a blunt manner, the relationship between him and his athletes seems relaxed. He exclaims that one gymnast “Sveta” is still asleep. Sveta could be Svetlana Rylkova, who competed nationally in the late 80s. However he is very dismissive of the girl who struggles on the press handstand.

In her bedroom at the gym, Natalia reflects upon the mental difficulties of not training. That she felt bored and restless because gymnastics is her life. For context, Natalia is from Norilsk which is a metal town way, way up in the polar regions. A closed city, then and now. She moved to Rostov at a young age for better training and likely remained there during her injury.

At meal time, the younger gymnasts chant “Yurcha, yurcha”. Which is also funnily enough how we call the vault in training too. You might be aware that recently Oksana Chusovitina recently corrected people that her nickname is Chusa and not Chuso. It’s the same sort of thing.

The gymnasts then gather around the television to watch the Moscow News tournament.

Natalia weighs herself on the scales in the gym. She is disappointed because she is still half a kilo above ideal. The physio remarks that her calves feel loaded and she will go off like a cannon ball. He says we will do all we can to make Rastorotsky happy. No mention of Natalia! The physio goes on to say that if she does all her routines well, he will be happy for a couple of days.

Very interesting that she wears grips in 1984. In their one to one chat, Rastorotsky shares his concern that they are running out of time and there are still too many mistakes. Again it’s all “we”. He does concede that he made a mistake regarding her vault at worlds, but doesn’t say what it was, whether it wasn’t ready etc.

As she practices her vaults, he becomes increasingly impatient with her. It made me smile that he’s effectively made his own table vault for use in practice. He finds her polite and quiet manner frustrating. She doesn’t talk back or make excuses but she also gives no explanation when something goes wrong.

He goes on to give more insight into her personality. She is a gentle person who dislikes rudeness. He frequently apologises for his outbursts and she always works much better once the air has been cleared.

As she looks at all her medals, she repeats her previous quote that she had won everything and never imagined getting injured (I’m not aware of what the actual diagnosis was, but I get the impression it was something that in 1984 was considered career ending).

She reflects that her injury may has been a blessing in disguise, that the break has been beneficial to her mentally.

To be continued

 

[IratePanda]

She begins by saying that together with her coach Vladislav Rastorotsky (she refers to him as Vladislav Stepanovich, which is a mark of respect) we won everything. The use of we is quite deliberate, however I don’t know if this is an expression of her feelings or if just in keeping with typical Soviet rhetoric of the era.

During the footage of her vaulting accident at 83 worlds, she is explaining that these victories made her feel somewhat invincible and she never imagined she would sustain an injury so serious that it would result in a 6 month break from training and having to regain her fitness.

In their home gym, Rastorotsky is shown greeting his younger gymnasts during training. Although he has quite a blunt manner, the relationship between him and his athletes seems relaxed. He exclaims that one gymnast “Sveta” is still asleep. Sveta could be Svetlana Rylkova, who competed nationally in the late 80s. However he is very dismissive of the girl who struggles on the press handstand.

In her bedroom at the gym, Natalia reflects upon the mental difficulties of not training. That she felt bored and restless because gymnastics is her life. For context, Natalia is from Norilsk which is a metal town way, way up in the polar regions. A closed city, then and now. She moved to Rostov at a young age for better training and likely remained there during her injury.

At meal time, the younger gymnasts chant “Yurcha, yurcha”. Which is also funnily enough how we call the vault in training too. You might be aware that recently Oksana Chusovitina recently corrected people that her nickname is Chusa and not Chuso. It’s the same sort of thing.

The gymnasts then gather around the television to watch the Moscow News tournament.

Natalia weighs herself on the scales in the gym. She is disappointed because she is still half a kilo above ideal. The physio remarks that her calves feel loaded and she will go off like a cannon ball. He says we will do all we can to make Rastorotsky happy. No mention of Natalia! The physio goes on to say that if she does all her routines well, he will be happy for a couple of days.

Very interesting that she wears grips in 1984. In their one to one chat, Rastorotsky shares his concern that they are running out of time and there are still too many mistakes. Again it’s all “we”. He does concede that he made a mistake regarding her vault at worlds, but doesn’t say what it was, whether it wasn’t ready etc.

As she practices her vaults, he becomes increasingly impatient with her. It made me smile that he’s effectively made his own table vault for use in practice. He finds her polite and quiet manner frustrating. She doesn’t talk back or make excuses but she also gives no explanation when something goes wrong.

He goes on to give more insight into her personality. She is a gentle person who dislikes rudeness. He frequently apologises for his outbursts and she always works much better once the air has been cleared.

As she looks at all her medals, she repeats her previous quote that she had won everything and never imagined getting injured (I’m not aware of what the actual diagnosis was, but I get the impression it was something that in 1984 was considered career ending).

She reflects that her injury may has been a blessing in disguise, that the break has been beneficial to her mentally.

To be continued

Thank you so much!

I never learned the final diagnosis, but the ABC coverage of '83 EF suggested that Yurchenko's injury might be a severe bone bruise or a dislocated kneecap.

 

[MaryClare]

I should have said that the timeline suggests that this was filmed in early spring 1984. As the gymnasts are watching the Moscow news tournament. This would have been before the Olympic boycott became apparent.

Natalia is reflecting upon being out of training for 6 months. She has appreciated the mental and physical break, but that is that also been challenging. She feels recovered and back to full strength but is impatient with her progress at times.

Ok, I did not realise the documentary is so short! Overall it’s very VERY Soviet. Both in rhetoric and in its stylistic qualities. It contrasts very sharply with some of the later, post G&P gymnastics documentaries of the USSR.

 

[eanda]

Thank you both for sharing the video and the summary. Yurchenko has also always been one of my top favorites.

 

[MaryClare]

I did some further research into Yurchenko’s early career.

As I mentioned, she was born in Norilsk. It’s a heavily polluted nickel town, probably one of the coldest places on earth. It’s also still a closed city, even to citizens. I’m not aware of any other gymnast coming from this town other than a Ksenia Sutulina who competed at the 2005 Spartakaida.

Her first coach was Galina Khasanova at Dinamo Norilsk and in the summer of 1977, Yurchenko and Khasanova attended a summer camp on the Black Sea coast, that was hosted by the Dinamo organisation. Also there was Rastorotsky of Dinamo Rostov. He spotted Yurchenko and invited her to train with him in Rostov. Galina Khasanova was tasked with telling Mrs Yurchenko, who was furious and refused to let Natalia go and demanded that she return home. Eventually her mother agreed, and Natalia moved to the other side of the country at the age of 12 to board at the sports school in Rostov. Less than a year later, she made her international debut at the Riga Invitational.

The documentary also portrays her as a lonely figure, with no one around of the same age. But quite unusually for gymnasts of that era, she trained with 3 other same age gymnasts who would also represent the USSR at international level. Albina Shishova, Elena Veselova and Elena Ponomarenko.

 

[IratePanda]

I did some further research into Yurchenko’s early career.

As I mentioned, she was born in Norilsk. It’s a heavily polluted nickel town, probably one of the coldest places on earth. It’s also still a closed city, even to citizens. I’m not aware of any other gymnast coming from this town other than a Ksenia Sutulina who competed at the 2005 Spartakaida.

Her first coach was Galina Khasanova at Dinamo Norilsk and in the summer of 1977, Yurchenko and Khasanova attended a summer camp on the Black Sea coast, that was hosted by the Dinamo organisation. Also there was Rastorotsky of Dinamo Rostov. He spotted Yurchenko and invited her to train with him in Rostov. Galina Khasanova was tasked with telling Mrs Yurchenko, who was furious and refused to let Natalia go and demanded that she return home. Eventually her mother agreed, and Natalia moved to the other side of the country at the age of 12 to board at the sports school in Rostov. Less than a year later, she made her international debut at the Riga Invitational.

The documentary also portrays her as a lonely figure, with no one around of the same age. But quite unusually for gymnasts of that era, she trained with 3 other same age gymnasts who would also represent the USSR at international level. Albina Shishova, Elena Veselova and Elena Ponomarenko.

I also found it interesting that all of the other gymnasts were so much younger. Had Ponomarenko, Veselova, and Shishova already retired by spring '84? I don't remember hearing much about Shishova after '83 Worlds, and the other two seemed to disappear after the '83 Universiade (IIRC).

Thank you again for the summary. My 13 year-old self (ca. 1984) also wants to express her deepest gratitude.

 

[MaryClare]

I also found it interesting that all of the other gymnasts were so much younger. Had Ponomarenko, Veselova, and Shishova already retired by spring '84? I don't remember hearing much about Shishova after '83 Worlds, and the other two seemed to disappear after the '83 Universiade (IIRC).

Thank you again for the summary. My 13 year-old self (ca. 1984) also wants to express her deepest gratitude.

Yes, they possibly had retired by then. None of them competed even domestically in 1984

 

[IratePanda]

To my dying day, I will wonder how Yurchenko might have performed at the '84 Olympics if the Soviets hadn't boycotted. She didn't do very well at the Alternate Games in Olomuoc, but I've always wanted to believe that she would have been brilliant in LA. As a dreamy 13 year-old (and even as a more grounded 54 year-old), I really wanted a repeat of the Budapest '83 AA podium, followed by multiple EF medals for Yurchenko. Retton would have been little more than a sorry footnote to gymnastics history. Oh, wait...

 

[Sasha]

She begins by saying that together with her coach Vladislav Rastorotsky (she refers to him as Vladislav Stepanovich, which is a mark of respect) we won everything. The use of we is quite deliberate, however I don’t know if this is an expression of her feelings or if just in keeping with typical Soviet rhetoric of the era.

That's interesting, I remember commentators paraphrasing Viktoria Karpenko's coach back in the day: "if we can just stay healthy, we'll be a champion". That always struck me as odd wording (like "we're pregnant"). Was it commonplace in the Soviet era?

 

[MaryClare]

That's interesting, I remember commentators paraphrasing Viktoria Karpenko's coach back in the day: "if we can just stay healthy, we'll be a champion". That always struck me as odd wording (like "we're pregnant"). Was it commonplace in the Soviet era?

Yes, very common. Athletes were, and often still are in Russia, seen as products of the system. Particularly in Soviet times, the emphasis was on collective achievement and not individual achievement. It’s not that they aren’t valued, far from it. But their achievements are viewed as a collective success.

If you look today at the list of Russia’s national team staff today, there are loads. Maybe 40+ people, they probably outnumber the gymnasts. It’s the same in the sports schools, although the budgets are more modest. It’s the reason why most ex soviet states can’t maintain the same level of athletes and why ex soviet coaches who move abroad often don’t produce the same level of athlete. Because The System isn’t there anymore.

 

[Bob]

That is all so interesting! Thank you!

 

[tempest]

To my dying day, I will wonder how Yurchenko might have performed at the '84 Olympics if the Soviets hadn't boycotted. She didn't do very well at the Alternate Games in Olomuoc, but I've always wanted to believe that she would have been brilliant in LA. As a dreamy 13 year-old (and even as a more grounded 54 year-old), I really wanted a repeat of the Budapest '83 AA podium, followed by multiple EF medals for Yurchenko. Retton would have been little more than a sorry footnote to gymnastics history. Oh, wait...

Wouldn't Retton have won some VT and FX medals even with the soviets?

 

[MaryClare]

Wouldn't Retton have won some VT and FX medals even with the soviets?

Vault medal, possibly. Golds, extremely unlikely.

 

[eanda]

Wouldn't Retton have won some VT and FX medals even with the soviets?

Maybe on vault. She was only third in prelims on FX. Throw in a couple of Soviets, and floor is tougher.

 

[RedBirdie]

My money is on Retton going home empty handed if there wasn't a boycott.

I'm assuming the composition of the judge panels would have looked very different, but correct me if I'm wrong about that.