Low D score routines for Simone?

[KathySantoni]

I’m wondering if any of the code experts are interested in constructing low risk routines that Simone could compete in EF’s that are still competitive due to her clean execution.

 

[RedBirdie]

Working on the assumption that she can double salto but not twist:

Her beam barely need to be modified, just do a double tuck dismount.

Floor…hmmmm. Double layout, double pike, double tuck, front layout-front pike?

 

[Doug1233]

I guess it totally depends on what she’s got the twisties on.

Some gymnasts have come out and said that they would sometimes be able to do a layout or a double full, but not a single full.

Things like that.

It becomes v hard to construct routines unless you know the issue you’re dealing with.

I bet Laurent is tearing his hair out.

 

[makam]

Or a double pike dismount for maybe a an extra tenth on beam.

for UB, they should quickly submit (is it too late?) for the Weiler Full and have her go up and do it and then pull a Nush. MDJDS is the first reserve and likely has no chance at a medal, right? (although that does feel like it would be pretty mean if she really wanted to compete)

 

[Sparklesmom]

Could she double lay dismount off bars? Has see ever done it? She has the tap (obviously) so maybe? Not sure what it’s worth but it would get her off the bars. Double pike off beam. I don’t see floor happening- too risky if twisties are persisting. Same with vault. MAYBE beam and bars.

 

[Doug1233]

To be frank there’s no point in her doing a watered down bars routine.

She could easily double pike off beam.

Floor is an issue. You can’t build EF level D in the code without substantial twisting.

 

[dweiss324]

Remember that double layout punch double tuck she showed? And the triple pike into the pit?? Lol

NOWS HER CHANCE

 

[Doug1233]

1 Y Double Pike (n/a)
2 Lopez (-0.8)

DMT w/ LO Flyaway (-0.5)

DMT w/ Double Pike (-0.4)


Replace Biles2 w/ Double Pike (-0.6)
Replace Full In w/ DLO (+0.1)
Replace Silivas w/ Double Tuck (-0.4)

Why didn’t they do this?

Simone could have still easily gotten AA gold together with additional medals on VT and FX. UB EF would have been a long shot but at least it would have kept her in contention for the AA.

I understand the issues in TF of course. But I’m surprised that Laurent didn’t at least try to persuade Simone to make these simple tweaks to keep her in the AA and EFs.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I’m not sure throwing a YDP at a time when your air sense isn’t to be trusted counts as a simple tweak. Even with it just being twists rather than saltos, it’s not hard to see the rationale there. That’s really not the sort of element I’d want to compete in anything other than peak condition, particularly 48 hours after I’d risked serious injury vaulting.

 

[Doug1233]

I guess it depends on how she was feeling…

Twisties, at least for me, was very skill specific. It affected simple front saltos without twist. It never affected a simple Barani. It never affected front fulls. And it didn’t affect backward skills unless it got really bad and I would want to go over my shoulder. And I found that there was a weird “fix” that I could do, by twisting in the skill before. For example, I couldn’t do a pike front but I COULD do “barani - like front”.

It didn’t generally limit my mindset on “safe” skills either. It was just those specific skills that I couldn’t do without my brain wanting my body to do something else.

She did the YDP onto hard on the podium like 48 hours before. And obviously there were no twists.

Even so - do a Lopez in the AA. I’m pretty sure she could have done a half on half off without that specific twisties issue coming into the picture.

For example, her front full step out on floor was not affected. That’s been confirmed. It seems that the issue was full+ twisting back skills. Her full in (off bars and on floor) was turning into a double Arabian.

So, that’s a long way of saying, I don’t think her issue affected ALL her skills. I imagine it was very skill specific. It may have not affected her confidence on her non-affected skills, at all.

I actually think Laurent would have told her to do a Lopez if Simone hadn’t said “yeah I’m fine” after baulking her TF warm up Amanar. Simone can Lopez completely cold. It was her timer. If you go back and watch the replay, Simone smiled and laughed after the baulk. She was like “yeah I’m fine!!” Obviously with hindsight she was probably trying to convince herself that she WAS fine. Trying to push the doubts to the back of her mind, as she probably has thousands of times before and been absolutely fine.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yes, it completely depends on how she was feeling. But honestly as a coach, I really wouldn’t have wanted my athlete doing a YDP 48 hours after what happened in TFs.

Bronze is more likely than gold, I think, if she were actually capable of competing. If we assume a Lopez would’ve been possible, and that this would’ve been one of her good landing days for say 9.5ish execution score, that would be a 14.7 on vault alongside the 14 she later achieved on beam. Meaning to pass Melnikova she’d have needed 28.5 on bars and floor. 28.734 for gold.

 

[RedBirdie]

Maybe a Y Full instead? At least in touch, she looked okay twisting 360 degrees, but anything beyond that and she got lost.

I understand the issues in TF of course. But I’m surprised that Laurent didn’t at least try to persuade Simone to make these simple tweaks to keep her in the AA and EFs.

We don’t know if Laurent didn’t try to persuade Simone to do watered down routines. We know almost zilch about…well, damn near everything that happened in Tokyo.

Pure speculation, but I’m not sure he’s the sort of coach who is a nimble enough thinker to figure out how to drastically re-work routines on the fly like that. And, Simone was all about throwing bigger and bigger difficulty; could she mentally handle watering down? By beam EFs, the answer was yes, but she had a lot of days (and a lot of failure along the way) to reach that conclusion.

 

[QuietColours]

We also don’t know how badly Simone was effected mentally by TF and the twisties in general–if she’s freaked out on top of having lost her air awareness, that can easily compound into an unsafe situation on much easier skills that wouldn’t otherwise have been affected.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Yeah it very much seemed like her decision. I’m sure they thought of alternative routines but she knows herself best

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Maybe a Y Full instead? At least in touch, she looked okay twisting 360 degrees, but anything beyond that and she got lost.

Yes, my completely worthless supposition also based on touch is that it’s more likely than not she could’ve done a Lopez and an FTY or perhaps Hristakieva. But of course, that wouldn’t have been enough for a medal, and vault is the one event where the US had a suitable understudy waiting. Well, Jade might have got bronze in the AA on her best day and with a bit of luck, but Mykayla was clearly a much stronger contender on vault.

There’s also the landing sized elephant in the room. I can believe Simone would have been capable of an FTY/Lopez combo plus some manner of double tuck, double pike and DLO on floor. I can equally well believe she’d have bounced out of them.

 

[irichluck21]

We also shouldn’t forget that she found out her aunt died while in Tokyo, as well as people calling her a quitter on social media.

Twisties were there but I suspect when she said mental health it was not just one thing, but a combination of things effecting her.

 

[makam]

And the complete lack of local family support. She has always seemed very reliant on her family (I mean, maybe my family was different but my mom came to maybe one of my high school soccer games (my dad came to none) while Simone’s family seemed to be present at each of her meets) and not having them there to talk her down and help put it into focus might also have been a factor.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I do wonder if, with all this in mind, Simone’s camp decided to cut their losses relatively early in proceedings and focus on the one event left where she genuinely did have a legitimate medal chance with a watered down set. We worked out fairly early in proceedings that top 3 on beam was still possible whereas she wasn’t getting a medal without twisting on any other event, so surely they did too.

 

[Doug1233]

I would argue that she had a better shot at an AA medal than a beam medal.

But for Suni’s huge wobble, Simone wouldn’t have even been close.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

We really have no idea what she could’ve done on floor and bars though, even working on the assumption that you’re correct about the Lopez (which I suspect you are). And there were many more landings for her to bound out of over four events: I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Simone could’ve got a double tuck or double pike dismount off bars fairly quickly, but actually controlling it is another thing altogether. For bronze, if we assume 14 on beam and about a 9.5 execution on a Lopez, ie a reasonable landing, that’s still a low 14 average needed on the other two events. It’d all have to be very well stuck.

It’s true that Suni would’ve got bronze had she not fucked up, but then multiple potential medallists throwing their chance away hasn’t exactly been a rarity in recent beam finals. If you want to take a punt on that happening you’re usually going to be right.