Kovacs with an extra flip?

[ArnoldRimmer]

I love them!

 

[GymBeauty]

Love his reverse Inbar, that skill is undervalued.

 

[MaryClare]

WTF happened at the end?!

 

[Denn]

Not any more! the values were raised a few years ago. It just hasn’t caught on yet.

 

[GymBeauty]

In both WAG and MAG the reverse Inbar is the same value as regular Inbar, making it pointless to do in comparison to the easier version. Then when comes to adding turns to the skill, WAG destroys people for pirouette angle, making those versions totally unviable, and MAG says turn entrances don’t matter anymore and circling skills are separate from turns, so just doing a normal giant before your Healy is the same skill as putting an Inbar before it. Bleh.

 

[Denn]

Most guys don’t find endos particularly harder than stalders on high bar though. 20 years ago or so, when the piked versions were worth more (like they are again now), we saw a lot of both.

BTW, the el-grip endo’s value is a D in men’s gymnastics. That’s the value of a Kovacs or a layout Tkatchev.

I’ll add that all these endo-fulls really were being done like two elements. I agree with them separating the elements. If someone could do an Endo-Ono with the pirouette initiated on the way to handstand, maybe they’d reconsider (just like they do give stalder + hop full a single value).

 

[GymBeauty]

Do you mean the L-grip piked endo (Inbar) is a D in MAG? It is yeah, but that still doesn’t seem worth the trouble, who ever has even done it? You first have to get into L-grip to do it and then afterward you probably don’t have the momentum to do a big release, making it an inferior choice to put in a routine as compared to an Adler-type skill (especially the Adler 1/2, which we see every guy doing). Plus the code even specifically gives bonus to those Adler connections, but not to any other type of closed-bar or pirouette work - which is so dumb!

I don’t agree with the way they’ve separated turns in MAG because first of all they aren’t worth much now (you just get C value for something that’s usually going to end well past handstand and get deducted) and secondly it removes of the assessment of the difficulty before the turn. Doing a Healy on top of the bar may be the same movement in itself, but the position you were in beforehand changes the momentum going in and how early you can start the turn (and obviously starting the turn later means more likely to end later and get deducted).

For WAG the cap of E on pirouettes is part of the problem, a reverse Inbar 1/1 is clearly harder than a regular Inbar 1/1 and deserves higher than E rating, and in addition to that I wish the reverse Inbar without turn could get connection bonus in WAG. That way it would at least be considerable to be worth doing.

 

[Denn]

Wow, you REALLY love piked endos.

 

[GymBeauty]

I do love the way they look, but importantly I want things to be worth an appropriate amount! It’s just irrational how a regular Inbar with the feet barely off the bar gets the same difficulty score as doing it in reverse, where you have to keep the legs pressed tighter and for a longer amount of time going around the bar; that’s not only harder in itself but also makes it harder to do additional movement afterward.

So if the reverse Inbar in WAG was allowed to get connection bonus while being D rated, and then the 1/2 turning version rated E, and the full turning version rated F, that would make so much more sense and maybe a couple people would actually compete those skills.