Gymcastic. Thoughts?

[Doug1233]

I don’t think it’s true. Not based on how we judged all week.

 

[Denn]

You also didn’t script every exercise. You also didn’t write your deductions into that artistry template every time. You also didn’t submit it.

You are not the WAG panel and not subject to monitoring of your judging.

 

[onodian]

When will she learn?

My guess is, right about the same time you learn not to hatelisten to her erson_tipping_hand:t2:

 

[Doug1233]

I don’t need to have done any of that to form an impression.

I probably scored about 300 routines, live, over the last week. With the immediate subsequent release of the FIG score. All my scores are available for you to look at in the spreadsheet. I haven’t touched any of them. I’ve been probably 90-95% within two or three tenths.

I don’t need to have written everything out in script, or be “subject to monitoring of my judging” to be able to form a view as to the use of artistry deductions in Liverpool. Of course it’s just my own view but we have done this for enough years to get a general feel of the scoring. Maybe you should judge all the routines, enter your scores into the sheet, and form your own view. It would be great if you did. I always enjoy comparing and debating scores.

We need to push for the public release of the judges scores. It’s outrageous that we don’t have that information.

ETA: Unless you’re trying to say that, because the judges are scripting the routines, they’re missing form deductions and going heavier on artistry, across the board? That might be a convincing view to take, but I don’t think it would result in such uniformity across all types of gymnasts. I also think it doesn’t acknowledge that the Brevet judges are obviously better judges than all of us are. They aren’t blind. They’re Level 2 and 3 Brevets for a reason.

 

[Denn]

I didn’t say that. I just mean that we can’t know 100% for sure what the WAG panel is doing, and that I was recently told that they are taking lots of artistry deductions.

I’ve done shadow judging with you in the past, and I am just not interested in doing it anymore because we’ll never know for sure what they are really doing. Plus it sort of gives me a false sense of hope that, some day, the scores will be more open and reasonable. I feel (now) like that’s never going to happen and the only thing to do is accept the mess.

 

[GymBeauty]

Yes the judges’ deductions should 100% be public.

Until then there will always be a degree of speculation and people shouldn’t be acting like their own deductions are the same as what other judges took, just because the end number is similar.

If that’s true, the scores would imply they are ignoring a lot of form deductions and replacing them with artistry.

Donatella’s own scoring examples have often ignored flexed feet, so…

 

[Doug1233]

people shouldn’t be acting like their own deductions are the same as what other judges took, just because the end number is similar

That is true if you look at one or two routines. You can be more and more sure in your own evaluations the more routines you score. Although I don’t think i’ve ever said that my deductions are “the same as” what other judges took.

But - to your point - even the judges within the same panel may have broad disagreement about how it is evaluated. Two judges might arrive at the same 7.8E in quite different ways. That’s kinda the point of a panel. Some judges might be hotter on feet; some might be more relaxed about feet and hotter on amplitude, etc etc. When the judges books have been published in the past, we have seen huge variances in scores between Brevets sitting on the same panel. All I can give is my opinion, based on my relatively robust review of pretty much all the broadcast routines at Worlds.

 

[Dex]

I know, I have been (very stupidly) discussing this on Twitter as well. One girl argued that Laurie said that the US girls deserved the gold so it must be true because she won gold at the 2016 Olympics so she would know… really? That is your argument?
I should really stop Twitter, it is a snake pit, I know…

 

[rlayt]

I don’t put much stock in what random people say on Twitter and Reddit has users like that too. Facebook is worse. There are a lot of uninformed opinions.

 

[Gymfan93]

Unfortunately social media means we have to hear/read the rantings of the uninformed now. Before, they’d have a very limited audience to spout off at and could easily be avoided.

 

[Denn]

I feel like that is a more balanced stance, and I really appreciate it.

 

[GymBeauty]

I think the artistry deductions on Beam have not changed much, but I know for sure there has been a big shift on Floor, and the gymnasts have very much been trying to adapt to it.

 

[Doug1233]

but I know for sure there has been a big shift on Floor

I’d like to see evidence of this.

 

[irichluck21]

I think the artistry deductions on Beam have not changed much, but I know for sure there has been a big shift on Floor, and the gymnasts have very much been trying to adapt to it.

Gonna disagree here.
It was clear that the US was receiving multiple artistry deductions on both beam and floor as evidenced by feedback given at the Pan Am Championships.

Additionally, it is also evident that beam is also being looked at strictly.
Carey fulfils the full turn requirement with her mount “roll” sequence, however, she still includes a full turn on beam despite already meeting the requirement because they know that if she tries to “dance” from one end to the other that Jade will get deducted, so she does the full turn just to get herself down the beam.

So it is clear that beam and floor artistry ARE being looked at (Worlds judges apparently were looking at the rubric after every routine) and that teams are addressing this.

Memmel mentioned that specifically they were going to look at beam and floor routines after Pan Ams.

 

[GymBeauty]

Oh for sure Beam is being looked at strictly, I just don’t think the “artistry” deductions being taken there are much different from last year, whereas on Floor the judges suddenly feel confident taking an entire point when going through the checklist. People have worked to avoid much of those new deductions the judges would otherwise take.

 

[irichluck21]

Sorry I misunderstood your post!

 

[navyblue]

Gymcastic said Tiana Sumanasekera had a video doing a yurchenko double tuck or pike into a pit I think… maybe it was a post to her instagram? But she’s private and I don’t really feel like following teenage gymnasts… anyone have a copy of that clip?

 

[RAFIKI]

I don’t use instagram but I came across it on twitter:

 

[RedBirdie]

Cool, but not? I mean, that’s a really open pike so she doesn’t rotate quickly and she’s no where close to actually landing that.

I’d be much more interested to know how bars is going.

 

[irichluck21]

Sumansekera has a strong DTY, not sure why the YDP?
Like Robin said… BARS BARS BARS