FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal) PART 2

[Doug1233]

I don't know which judge. But it was the same judge. And apparently it has caused a stir...!

 

[phoenix7]

I don't know which judge. But it was the same judge. And apparently it has caused a stir...!

I feel that - unless they were handing out zeros like candy across the board - it absolutely should cause a stir.

 

[youwannacranson]

First of all I would like to apologize for taking a screenshot of a post here summarising Leanne's book and posting it to Twitter! I didn't think before doing that and deleted it immediately when I saw people here weren't happy

Those artistry breakdowns were posted by me on Twitter, and I am glad they made it here as I find this group insightful and fun to read.

Below are the full breakdowns for beam & floor. Names are highlighted in green for the gymnast's best performance, ranked 1 per gymnast in brackets. 0.0s are in bold (19 on BB, 7 on FX). Gymnasts with the same totals are listed chronologically.

Some observations:
• E7 in FX finals only gave out 0.1 and 0.2s. Barbosu was the only one to receive less than 0.2 from the other 6 judges (only once too)
• All three British beamers getting a 0.0 from the same judge in TF was a thing.
• Aurelie Tran's floor was received much better in Paris than in Antwerp, where she did the same routine. (a redditor did a similar ranking for the 2023 artistry). Kishi Rina was very improved with her new routine too.
• Ellie Black's stock went down from Antwerp where she did very well. I am also surprised Esposito doesn't do better with her movement quality, and wonder if it's due to facial expression (or lack thereof)
• The AA FX panel was very tight, especially for the first two rotations compared to those gymnasts' other days.
• Ruby Evans did poorly in Paris, but her new floor did VERY well at 2025 Euros EF. She got 1.2 total which was 2nd, ahead of Esposito and only 0.1 behind Barbosu.
• Japan has beam figured out, Brazil gets everything.

Also these charts took FOREVER as the source is poorly formatted, couldn't copy paste anything.

 

[youwannacranson]

UB, BB, FX finals results & rankings according to each of the E judges. Pretty self explanatory but those scores are the D score, each E judge's E score, and subtract the NDs.

• Bars & beam were unanimous.
• Nobody had Derwael top 3 on bars despite being 0.034 from bronze.
• 3 judges had Voinea 3rd, the other 4 had her 6th and even 7th (if I said I agree with that 13.2...)
• 3 judges had Barbosu 3rd, E5 (Oksana Omelianchik) even had her only 0.1 from Biles
• Only 1/7 judges had D'Amato as low as 6th on floor (her final placement) which reminds me of Ukraine placing 4th on all 4 events in 2006 Euros TF but placing 5th.

 

[MaryClare]

UB, BB, FX finals results & rankings according to each of the E judges. Pretty self explanatory but those scores are the D score, each E judge's E score, and subtract the NDs.

• Bars & beam were unanimous.
• Nobody had Derwael top 3 on bars despite being 0.034 from bronze.
• 3 judges had Voinea 3rd, the other 4 had her 6th and even 7th (if I said I agree with that 13.2...)
• 3 judges had Barbosu 3rd, E5 (Oksana Omelianchik) even had her only 0.1 from Biles
• Only 1/7 judges had D'Amato as low as 6th on floor (her final placement) which reminds me of Ukraine placing 4th on all 4 events in 2006 Euros TF but placing 5th.

Interesting. Why so much inconsistency with where they ranked Voinea? How can one judge have her in 3rd and one in 7th?

 

[phoenix7]

UB, BB, FX finals results & rankings according to each of the E judges. Pretty self explanatory but those scores are the D score, each E judge's E score, and subtract the NDs.

• Bars & beam were unanimous.
• Nobody had Derwael top 3 on bars despite being 0.034 from bronze.
• 3 judges had Voinea 3rd, the other 4 had her 6th and even 7th (if I said I agree with that 13.2...)
• 3 judges had Barbosu 3rd, E5 (Oksana Omelianchik) even had her only 0.1 from Biles
• Only 1/7 judges had D'Amato as low as 6th on floor (her final placement) which reminds me of Ukraine placing 4th on all 4 events in 2006 Euros TF but placing 5th.

Well, who's going to argue with Oksana Omelianchik?

 

[Doug1233]

UB, BB, FX finals results & rankings according to each of the E judges. Pretty self explanatory but those scores are the D score, each E judge's E score, and subtract the NDs.

• Bars & beam were unanimous.
• Nobody had Derwael top 3 on bars despite being 0.034 from bronze.
• 3 judges had Voinea 3rd, the other 4 had her 6th and even 7th (if I said I agree with that 13.2...)
• 3 judges had Barbosu 3rd, E5 (Oksana Omelianchik) even had her only 0.1 from Biles
• Only 1/7 judges had D'Amato as low as 6th on floor (her final placement) which reminds me of Ukraine placing 4th on all 4 events in 2006 Euros TF but placing 5th.

thanks for this. were these circulated to the judges, post-meet?

also - who was the judge that gave the british athletes 0.0 on beam?

 

[Aeris]

.5 artistry differential being common between judges for the same Floor routine, and up to .6 differential being a thing, is a bit problematic. It's not like anyone is doing anything particularly esoteric and controversial with regards to their musical interpretation and choreo, to create such a wide gap of opinion.

I think Andrade's FX deserved a bit less artistry deduction on the whole. Thank goodness she deservedly won the final.

 

[youwannacranson]

thanks for this. were these circulated to the judges, post-meet?

also - who was the judge that gave the british athletes 0.0 on beam?

E4 on BB was Azerbaijani

 

[phoenix7]

E4 on BB was Azerbaijani

Their Embassy in Brazil had better batten down the hatches

 

[MaryClare]

E4 on BB was Azerbaijani

I’m fairly sure their top brevet is Kristina Pravdina

 

[youwannacranson]

I’m fairly sure their top brevet is Kristina Pravdina

Yes it was her. Is she the same Russian Kristina Pravdina who competed at 2006-07 Worlds?

 

[Doug1233]

E4 on BB was Azerbaijani

To be fair to her, she was low across the board. She threw out a ton of 0.0s

Nine 0.0's were given out in the TF. She gave 7 of them. Two judges gave one each. Four judges didn't give any.

I think she just didn't get the artistry memo...

 

[Denn]

I think she just didn't get the artistry memo...

or she did, and she simply could not find the misery in her heart to punish athletes so harshly.

 

[MaryClare]

Yes it was her. Is she the same Russian Kristina Pravdina who competed at 2006-07 Worlds?

Yes. Around 09/10, her mother and father were hired as Azerbaijan’s head coaches. They were from the same gym in Voronezh as Kolesnikova/Komova. Kristina switched to Azerbijan and competed briefly before retiring.

 

[Aeris]

To be fair to her, she was low across the board. She threw out a ton of 0.0s

Smart way to get a paycheck from a bunch of federations.

 

[navyblue]

I think the artistry results are more than a bit concerning. A 5-6 tenth spread between judges working at the highest calibre of Olympic competition does not do much to reinforce the idea that these standards are in fact standard. It really creates a big black box without much transparency/accountability if a judge can make choices that put her at a full half point differential on E score from her peers.

In fact... is it true that a 3 tenth spread on Execution triggers a judges conference? Since artistry is factored into E score, seems to me there would be dozens of conferences happening here? Or, are they saying that artistry is excluded from that rule, which is also a bad look IMO.

 

[navyblue]

Thank you for compiling that youwannacranson. Very useful to see what the artistry rules are rewarding and penalizing on floor and beam.

I will say that on Floor, the gymnasts do look more or less correctly ordered in terms of average deduction, and it feels fairly reasonable that Simone should have about a ~0.3 handicap compared to Andrade.

I struggle more with the application of these rules to beam, where there is no music/musicality, and thus the arm flailing and bizarre diagonal-plane movement that is apparently required to get top marks here is just looks silly, in my opinion.

My favorite beam routines are much less 'showy' - I like the swift, precise movement between routines that most Chinese beam workers exemplify. And honestly, I'd take Jordan Chiles' (recipient of some of the highest artistry deductions) quick, understated movements between her skills over some of the top performers.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

There are no conferences based on E-Score, except in the case of an impossible score. For example, if the seven E-deductions come in at 3,0 3,5, 1,7, 2,8, 4,3, 5,0 and 1,2, the two high, two low are dropped and the middle three are averaged - so if the judge who entered 1,2 may have forgotten to add in two falls, but it is on that official, and they will be the one who will get a bad evaluation. Even when factoring the artistry (and almost all FIG events, artistry is entered then the execution is entered but the final tally is just a lump some looking at the E-deductions.

 

[navyblue]

There are no conferences based on E-Score, except in the case of an impossible score. For example, if the seven E-deductions come in at 3,0 3,5, 1,7, 2,8, 4,3, 5,0 and 1,2, the two high, two low are dropped and the middle three are averaged - so if the judge who entered 1,2 may have forgotten to add in two falls, but it is on that official, and they will be the one who will get a bad evaluation. Even when factoring the artistry (and almost all FIG events, artistry is entered then the execution is entered but the final tally is just a lump some looking at the E-deductions.

Do the gymnasts have immediate access to their artistry scores? Because I think it's wild that WTC would introduce this extremely consequential set of new deductions and then basically hide that result from the athletes who would stand to learn and improve from their scores? Even if the answer is 'yes' (for the athletes), I feel like it's hard to justify why the scoring isn't released during competition for the benefit of the audience/commentators at least. It feels very much like FIG isn't confident that those scores would stand up to scrutiny and is intentionally obfuscating them within the E score.