FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal) PART 2

[rlayt]

Figure skating is a performance. Artistic Swimming is a performance.

 

[lovegymnasts]

Is there another sport that we consider a "performance" ? There may be but I can not think of one.

Synchronized swimming, I would think
I just can't with this sport

 

[Passion]

Wushu Taolu competition.

 

[JaJa]

Figure skating is a performance. Artistic Swimming is a performance.

Right. Of course. I guess the difference there is that men and women are treated/scored the same way in those sports. Is that right?

 

[mnesiptolema]

In recent Olympics, skateboarding, karate (kata) and even dressage come to mind. And breakdancing lol

I understand gymnastics is first and foremost a sport, but it's one with a rich history of artistry and innovation and it's always been associated with aesthetic endeavour. So I don't think every floor routine should be expected to tell a story or be intricately choreographed, but I do believe exquisite quality of movement should be sought after and rewarded.

To pre-empt a possible reply, I recognise that traditional gender norms are responsible for the divergent expectations for men and women. However unfortunate in however many other ways, I prefer the outcome for the women here. I wouldn't watch WAG if it were exclusively sportive - I'd just watch parkour.

 

[MaryClare]

I understand it would be impractical, but if more developmental programs cut a few training hours and mandated their kids took a dance class (in any style) once a week, that'd probably be job done, no?

The problem isn’t the number of hours, the problem is where those hours are spent. Fewer training hours is likely to make things even worse!

 

[onodian]

I think basically all the sports that are judged, isn't that right? From that point on the way you do something kind of takes a more importante role. Nobody cares what the winner of a 100m race looks like while running, that's not what that race is going to be decided on.

 

[KristyJ]

Betty Okino has been on the National Team Staff as the person in charge of dance and artistry for the past seven years.

For about as long as Dan Baker was the developmental lead, Okino has been in charge of dance.

Well then.... alas

 

[Seyonne]

For the millionth time I’ll say how much I hate fx. I often leave the room. It’s too cringy to watch. The music often has too many cuts that add up to an unlistenable mess. I’d ditch the music and turn it into mag fx. I might even just turn it into tumbling. You want grace and controlled movements? That’s what beam is for.

 

[KristyJ]

Is there another sport that we consider a "performance" ? There may be but I can not think of one.

Figure skating, synchronized swimming, and of the other gymnastics disciplines beyond artistic, equestrian dressage...

 

[KristyJ]

In recent Olympics, skateboarding, karate (kata) and even dressage come to mind. And breakdancing lol

I understand gymnastics is first and foremost a sport, but it's one with a rich history of artistry and innovation and it's always been associated with aesthetic endeavour. So I don't think every floor routine should be expected to tell a story or be intricately choreographed, but I do believe exquisite quality of movement should be sought after and rewarded.

To pre-empt a possible reply, I recognise that traditional gender norms are responsible for the divergent expectations for men and women. However unfortunate in however many other ways, I prefer the outcome for the women here. I wouldn't watch WAG if it were exclusively sportive - I'd just watch parkour.

I've been watching through old gymnastics, starting with very old gymnastics footage and working my way forward year-by-year. I'm up to 1959. As I've done so I've been struck by how artistic many of the mens' movements on floor were in the past. Heath Thorpe would be pleased with some of it. At the same time it was fascinating to watch the women train some rings and parallel bars skills even though I understand why the sport took the direction it did. I think the divergence of "masculine" and "feminine" over time has diluted some of this background, when gymnastics, to me, means control of the body and finesse of movement. That finesse and control should mean that overall movement quality is a given as a gymnast and not an afterthought.

 

[RedBirdie]

I think basically all the sports that are judged, isn't that right? From that point on the way you do something kind of takes a more importante role. Nobody cares what the winner of a 100m race looks like while running, that's not what that race is going to be decided on.

Diving, boxing, aerial skiing, freestyle skiing, snowboarding are all judged, and none have an artistic component. Even trampoline is judges, and there's decidedly not performance aspect.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

Another thing I was always taught is to sell my floor routine (and I was never even close to being elite), but that seems to be lacking in many of the U.S. women. You can tell which are engaged in their floor routines and which aren't. And it's a shame that some of the ones who are engaged are among the least artistic.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I understand it would be impractical, but if more developmental programs cut a few training hours and mandated their kids took a dance class (in any style) once a week, that'd probably be job done, no?

I'm all for this. I've seen videos of the Russian figure skaters and it seems like they're introduced to all kinds of dance. I definitely think it would be helpful.

 

[RichardL]

For the millionth time I’ll say how much I hate fx. I often leave the room. It’s too cringy to watch. The music often has too many cuts that add up to an unlistenable mess. I’d ditch the music and turn it into mag fx. I might even just turn it into tumbling. You want grace and controlled movements? That’s what beam is for.

Gabrielle Hardie is currently a balm for this spiritual wound, at least for me

 

[KristyJ]

Another thing I was always taught is to sell my floor routine (and I was never even close to being elite), but that seems to be lacking in many of the U.S. women. You can tell which are engaged in their floor routines and which aren't. And it's a shame that some of the ones who are engaged are among the least artistic.

It's amazing how much selling a routine can cover for other deficiencies in artistry. Roberson immediately comes to mind. She's lacking in flexibility, posture, and complexity of choreography, but she sells the heck out of it and gets the crowd behind her. I find myself rooting for her even if her style isn't one I'd normally enjoy.

 

[MaryClare]

I'm all for this. I've seen videos of the Russian figure skaters and it seems like they're introduced to all kinds of dance. I definitely think it would be helpful.

They aren’t. They have elementary training in ballet. Every single movement is hyper choreographed. The length of the routines in FS mean that you can’t get away with being awkward