FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal) PART 2

[RedBirdie]

And we weep with her

 

[phoenix7]

That choreographer could have come up with a routine that ticked every artistry box the WTC came up with, but that fact is Simone simply isn't capable of performing her choreo in a way that doesn't result in a bunch of deductions.

That said, US choreography is pretty bad, and the situation is worsened by gymnasts who have little training in the finer points of performing choreography. Some of them have looked flat out bored.

What deductions do you think she'd have got?

 

[RedBirdie]

What deductions do you think she'd have got?

My best guesses for what judges would be inclined to take. Judges took more artistry deductions as the Olympics wore on, so not every judge took every deduction in each stage of competition.
Poor body posture (.1)
Insufficient amplitude (maximum elongation of movement) (.1)
Poor foot form (.1)
Poor expressive engagement according to style of movement (.1 OR .3)
Insufficient complexity or creativity of movement throughout exercise (.1)

Our resident judges are more than welcome to chime in on what artistry deductions that would take.

 

[makam]

So Simone looks to have basically flat feet. Can flat footed people even achieve a komova-esque toe point?

 

[RedBirdie]

Simone didn't fully extend through her ankles. Having flat feet doesn't prevent you from achieving extension. Plus she would sickle her feet frequently.

 

[MaryClare]

So Simone looks to have basically flat feet. Can flat footed people even achieve a komova-esque toe point?

Yes. Having little no arch in your foot has no impact on ankle flexibility.

 

[Doug1233]

Top scores (0.16 average)

Interesting that hyper-extension in the knees and toepoint is the common thread here.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Simone didn't fully extend through her ankles. Having flat feet doesn't prevent you from achieving extension. Plus she would sickle her feet frequently.

This wasn’t nearly as much of a problem when Simone was with Aimee. Aimee really spent the time working on Simone’s weaknesses. It’s a shame all of that work went completely out the door when she went to the Landi’s.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Why did Simone's gymnastics deteriorate under the Landis? Was it a resting-on-the-laurels-type situation where they felt she had such a huge cushion that the little things didn't matter? Especially in the lead-up to Paris where it became apparent that Simone could OOB her way out of gold, especially up against a Rebeca Andrade who had OOBed herself out of Olympic AA in Tokyo and thus focused on controlling her landings.

 

[BB12]

Why did Simone's gymnastics deteriorate under the Landis? Was it a resting-on-the-laurels-type situation where they felt she had such a huge cushion that the little things didn't matter? Especially in the lead-up to Paris where it became apparent that Simone could OOB her way out of gold, especially up against a Rebeca Andrade who had OOBed herself out of Olympic AA in Tokyo and thus focused on controlling her landings.

My guess would be that working on difficulty was more much interesting for her then working on the smaller details. And since her score cushion was so large, she probably didn't feel the need to do something that wouldn't make a tangible difference to the result.

 

[mnesiptolema]

Interesting that hyper-extension in the knees and toepoint is the common thread here.

Certainly the pointed toes, perhaps more so than hyperextension? Julia Soares was the only gymnast of the three who stood out as hyperextended to me - but I've been watching a lot of ballet lately so I may no longer be living in the real world.

I thought all three had enough ankle mobility to support high releves and a clean line from hip to toe. And my impression was they had the stability to maintain carriage while dancing (rather than hunching the shoulders, tilting the hips and the like to support their movement).

 

[Doug1233]

Why did Simone's gymnastics deteriorate under the Landis? Was it a resting-on-the-laurels-type situation where they felt she had such a huge cushion that the little things didn't matter? Especially in the lead-up to Paris where it became apparent that Simone could OOB her way out of gold, especially up against a Rebeca Andrade who had OOBed herself out of Olympic AA in Tokyo and thus focused on controlling her landings.

100%

And also the Code doesn’t reward pointed feet.

Look at Brooklyn Moors. All that effort on floor for fucking nothing.

Just learn a triple double and that D Score drowns out anything else.

 

[Doug1233]

Certainly the pointed toes, perhaps more so than hyperextension? Julia Soares was the only gymnast of the three who stood out as hyperextended to me - but I've been watching a lot of ballet lately so I may no longer be living in the real world.

I thought all three had enough ankle mobility to support high releves and a clean line from hip to toe. And my impression was they had the stability to maintain carriage while dancing (rather than hunching the shoulders, tilting the hips and the like to support their movement).

And yet - think of all the hundreds of hours that took to get knees and ankles and toes like that. All that effort (and pain!!) of extra stretching your body for hours every week.

Then compare it to Jordan Chiles. 2-3 tenths separation in terms of artistry deductions.

Not worth doing.

 

[onodian]

Top scores (0.16 average)

this is rather dissapointing to me, ngl. On the one hand I'm happy that tran and soares are there as they are both not huge names and so it means at least that the judges aren't simply throwing this onto already favoured gymnasts. What's a little depressing is that none of these routines have much in the way of choreography. Just as I was about to get excited with Soares, the music is picking up pace and that's the moment she goes down to the floor to prepare a wolf turn. I'm sorry but it's all insane. Tran is probably the one with more in the way of choreo, even if it's all "look at me I'm fake-baletting"

Rant done, we may now proceed

 

[MaryClare]

this is rather dissapointing to me, ngl. On the one hand I'm happy that tran and soares are there as they are both not huge names and so it means at least that the judges aren't simply throwing this onto already favoured gymnasts. What's a little depressing is that none of these routines have much in the way of choreography. Just as I was about to get excited with Soares, the music is picking up pace and that's the moment she goes down to the floor to prepare a wolf turn. I'm sorry but it's all insane. Tran is probably the one with more in the way of choreo, even if it's all "look at me I'm fake-baletting"

Rant done, we may now proceed

110%
All the “artistry” is just checking a box

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Wolf turns need banning.

 

[RedBirdie]

110%
All the “artistry” is just checking a box

And yet so many can't even check off most of the boxes. Watching most of the US floor routines this weekend was painful.

I think the artistry checklist is, as Denn loves to say, very busybody. If the goal is to put artistry back into floor and beam, it's been an abject failure.

 

[MaryClare]

And yet so many can't even check off most of the boxes. Watching most of the US floor routines this weekend was painful.

I think the artistry checklist is, as Denn loves to say, very busybody. If the goal is to put artistry back into floor and beam, it's been an abject failure.

I don’t know why so many elite gymnasts today completely lack confidence of movement. They genuinely look awkward

 

[Hatsumomo]

I don’t know why so many elite gymnasts today completely lack confidence of movement. They genuinely look awkward

The complete lack of supplemental dance lessons and no real choreographer that can work each gymnast's strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

 

[JaJa]

Why is there so much concern over "artistry" in WAG but not in MAG, where the emphasis is all on power, acrobatics and athleticism? Why the difference in the core values of WAG and MAG?