Controversies in Gymnastics

[arabiandoublefront]

Wouldn't qualifications have already been done by then, or was it done differently then?

They added compulsories to optionals to determine all-around qualifiers in 1996.

 

[Passion]

Wouldn't qualifications have already been done by then, or was it done differently then?

It was done differently. 1996 had compulsories and team optionals. Both days of competition counted together to determine finals qualification.

 

[cftmoonlight79]

I know I watched with great interest but I have forgotten some things

 

[Matilda23]

Australians vaulting in 2000 - they could do those vaults. But I recall hearing at the time that a few had colds in the days prior. I don’t know for sure. Romanian team also had colds apparently.

 

[tsarinajen]

Yeah I understood it as Shannon just doing compulsories. It was understandable waning to rest because she competed a lot that year, was a bit injured and probably exhausted. I believe USAG wanted Shannon to do optional bars and beam but Steve said no. I think that is not the controversy per say, but rather that she left the team and didn't stay to support and cheer on the team or be available in case of injury. Given the young team at the time, having Shannon there would have been good for those younger athletes. She ended up with a silver team medal that she didn't stay for.

'94 was weird because there were two Worlds that year too. I thought individual worlds were in the spring and team worlds in the fall (after US championships).
'94 was interesting in general for politics within USA gymnastics since Bela was really out of the picture with seniors at this point (Wasn't Alexandrov coaching Moceanu then? )
Steve had brought the Dynamo club to the Goodwill Games right before Nationals too.
At Nationals, Dawes swept AA and the event finals that year. Could a couple of those gone to Shannon? Maybe. I don't really remember. Could that have something to do with her leaving the team after compulsories and not staying? Certainly possible.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I hate that people these days act like Kerri wasn't 18 and a grown adult who could make her own decisions at the time. Didn't she also factor in qualifying for the all-around?

Not sure, but she was the 4th placed American well behind Moceanu at that point.

I think it's an overcorrection though, pendulum swinging the other way. Obviously Kerri was lionised for what she did. It's since then become clear how abusive USAG was, and people look at that with understandable horror. I mean, Nassar was of the ones carrying her off ffs. It fits better with that narrative if Kerri were coerced or lied to or done wrong by not being told that she didn't need to vault, and also Bela has lied and said he spoke to her and told her to go again when in fact he was well out of earshot. Which hasn't helped. But the fact is that she was risking her Olympic gold medal if she didn't vault a second time. I'm in no way saying what she should or shouldn't have done in that situation, but that's what it was.

 

[RedBirdie]

'94 was weird because there were two Worlds that year too. I thought individual worlds were in the spring and team worlds in the fall (after US championships).
'94 was interesting in general for politics within USA gymnastics since Bela was really out of the picture with seniors at this point (Wasn't Alexandrov coaching Moceanu then? )
Steve had brought the Dynamo club to the Goodwill Games right before Nationals too.
At Nationals, Dawes swept AA and the event finals that year. Could a couple of those gone to Shannon? Maybe. I don't really remember. Could that have something to do with her leaving the team after compulsories and not staying? Certainly possible.

Moceanu was still a junior in 1994.

Nunno ran Shannon into the ground that year. He had her compete so much, such as the GWG. She looked exhausted and miserable at nationals. It was probably in Shannon's best interest to skip team worlds on the fall, but USAG didn't want that, Steve didn't want that, and Shannon's too much of a competitor to want that.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

Not sure, but she was the 4th placed American well behind Moceanu at that point.

I think it's an overcorrection though, pendulum swinging the other way. Obviously Kerri was lionised for what she did. It's since then become clear how abusive USAG was, and people look at that with understandable horror. I mean, Nassar was of the ones carrying her off ffs. It fits better with that narrative if Kerri were coerced or lied to or done wrong by not being told that she didn't need to vault, and also Bela has lied and said he spoke to her and told her to go again when in fact he was well out of earshot. Which hasn't helped. But the fact is that she was risking her Olympic gold medal if she didn't vault a second time. I'm in no way saying what she should or shouldn't have done in that situation, but that's what it was.

Yeah, I'm just not a huge fan of revisionist history. I think what happened is that after Moceanu fell, Kerri saw that being the third AA from the US was in reach.

 

[JusticeMom]

I hate that people these days act like Kerri wasn't 18 and a grown adult who could make her own decisions at the time. Didn't she also factor in qualifying for the all-around?

I know she was 18. But she was clearly impressionable and spent many years in very controlled environment without a lot of practice in making her own decisions. That was very much the era where gymnasts did what were told and nobody spoke up (especially to Bela or Marta).

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yeah, I'm just not a huge fan of revisionist history. I think what happened is that after Moceanu fell, Kerri saw that being the third AA from the US was in reach.

Could well be. I'm sure she would've known Moceanu was well ahead after 7 events.

 

[JusticeMom]

-1988 Olympics when the US received a .5 deduction for Rhonda Faehn (alternate athlete) staying on the podium during competition. The prevailing thought is at this cost the US the bronze medal to the East Germans.

-1992 - Kim Kelly being kicked of the team. She was still credentialed at Olympics.

-2000 Olympics was the shit show ot all shit shows. The Chinese ages, the AA Vault Fiasco, Dantzcher (rightfully so) making waves, Atler not being named to the team, Bela taking over as a team coordinator last minute... Morgan Whife getting injured and Schiewkert getting nod over Alyssa Beckerman... NBC televising announcement was ridiculous and painful to watch.

-2006 worlds -Ferrari winning with a falll

-2008 - Chinese ages were front and center. Missing teeth by multiple athletes, etc, shady paperwork (He Kexin)..

 

[Hatsumomo]

-1992 - Kim Kelly being kicked of the team. She was still credentialed at Olympics.

Wasn't she credentialed because the Karolyis had to submit names after the "official" Trials but still planning to have that closed door Trials to finalize the team? And that everybody knew the team wouldn't be finalized until after the closed-door competition, so Kim Kelly was jumping the gun (which, to her defense, all the media had that initial list so she was being refered to as one of the Olympic team members).

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Could well be. I'm sure she would've known Moceanu was well ahead after 7 events.

She was behind until Moceanu sat both of her vaults and by landing her second one she finished ahead. Who knows if she was aware, though. I would assume Bela preferred Moceanu to be in the AA.

 

[Hatsumomo]

I think we would've had a whole different controversy where Bela subs in Moceanu over Strug for the AA.

 

[Memphisgym]

Wendy Hillard's initial exclusion from the 1983 World Championship Group Routine.

 

[JusticeMom]

Wasn't she credentialed because the Karolyis had to submit names after the "official" Trials but still planning to have that closed door Trials to finalize the team? And that everybody knew the team wouldn't be finalized until after the closed-door competition, so Kim Kelly was jumping the gun (which, to her defense, all the media had that initial list so she was being refered to as one of the Olympic team members).the at

Yes. But I believe there's a high-level of the weight of the closed door process and the manner in which the athletes were selected. IIRC, I think the coaches voted.

 

[OnoNoKomachi]

2012 TF Uchimura PH dismount.
Originally it wasn't credited and Japan finished fourth.
The Japanese protested and credit was given, moving Japan into second.
The Japanese coach walked up to the judges with a wad of cash (to pay to be able to lodge the protest. If the protest is accepted I think the money is returned).
Now there is a rule if a gymnast doesn't get credit for a PH dismount, he can repeat it.

I'm not a WAG expert, but this sounds similar to the situation with Jordan not credited initially with her Gogean - a skill that wasn't credited was credited after a protest, thus changing the results. I don't have the knowledge in either case to say if the change was warranted.

Just be glad TV didn't show America walking up with a bunch of cash in hand. I assume the FIG now takes credit cards or PayPal, because that was a really bad look.

 

[rlayt]

I read that they use Venmo.

 

[Memphisgym]

Vault height
2000 Olympics

 

[Caledi]

2012 TF Uchimura PH dismount.
Originally it wasn't credited and Japan finished fourth.
The Japanese protested and credit was given, moving Japan into second.
The Japanese coach walked up to the judges with a wad of cash (to pay to be able to lodge the protest. If the protest is accepted I think the money is returned).
Now there is a rule if a gymnast doesn't get credit for a PH dismount, he can repeat it.

I'm not a WAG expert, but this sounds similar to the situation with Jordan not credited initially with her Gogean - a skill that wasn't credited was credited after a protest, thus changing the results. I don't have the knowledge in either case to say if the change was warranted.

Just be glad TV didn't show America walking up with a bunch of cash in hand. I assume the FIG now takes credit cards or PayPal, because that was a really bad look.

I feel like I have a memory of Aly Raisman's appeal (which knocked Ponor out of the medals) and someone (Marta? Mihai) waving a wad of cash. It was a bad look for sure.