2025 European Championships in Israel

[YurchenkoLoop]

Discuss. How do we reckon with this in a world in which Russia is banned?

 

[MaryClare]

Well Rhythmic euros was in Tel Aviv last year. Was a home win for Israel in the AA.

 

[JaJa]

What exactly is the problem?

 

[Passion]

What exactly is the problem?

Israel also has a habit of lobbing bombs at their neighbors.

 

[Bob]

We don’t generally consider Israel as part of Europe.

 

[onodian]

Yeah it’s weird for me as a European, but I don’t know where Europe’s borders are. I thought Turkey was the outer border. Eurovision also just further complicates this problem. Is Georgia Europe or Asia? Does it make any difference whatsoever? Maybe we should switch to Eurasia

 

[MaryClare]

Georgia would argue that it is culturally European. Where as Azerbaijan identifies far more with the Arab world and Central Asia in nearly every way- culture, religion, economy

 

[JaJa]

No. But that was clearly not the OP’s point – hence the reference to the Russian ban. Moreover, there is precedent for this – for example, in 2020 Israel became a temporary but full member of the Western European Regional group of the UN General Assembly. (It was blocked of course from joining the Asia-Pacific Group where it belongs geographically and culturally.

 

[JaJa]

Trying to draw a parallel between Russia’s ongoing aggressive and brutal invasion of Ukraine – which was completely without provocation or military necessity and embarked upon solely to subject Ukraine to itself , and which is quite literally destroying the invaded country – to Israel’s occasional bombing of Gaza and/or Lebanon which is virtually always in response to rockets launched into civilian areas of Israel or Hezbollah’s acts of aggression such as crossing the border and kidnaping Israelis – is ludicrous.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Yes, Israel just bombed Iran and a truck carrying food and medical supplies from Iraq to Syria.

Israel is right now forcibly evicting 1000 Palestinians in Masafer Yatta with guns. They’re demolishing homes.

97% of the water in Gaza is undrinkable because of pollution from bombing. Babies are dying of dehydration and a host of diseases.

 

[JDB]

And Australia is part of Europe according to Eurovision which makes it even more confusing.

 

[JaJa]

Yes, Israel just bombed Iran and a truck carrying food and medical supplies from Iraq to Syria.

Israel is right now forcibly evicting 1000 Palestinians in Masafer Yatta with guns. They’re demolishing homes.

97% of the water in Gaza is undrinkable because of pollution from bombing. Babies are dying of dehydration and a host of diseases.

There is an ongoing war between Israel and the Palestinians. And Israel is the stronger party, this is true. But the stronger party is not necessarily the aggressor or the one with the greater liability. They are simply the stronger party.

The fact is that Israel has to contend with never ending acts of terror. Masafer Yatta has been designated as closed military site and yes they are evicting Palestinians as a result. Its sad, even tragic, but it would not be happening if the Palestinians would just agree to live in peace.

Israel has occupied the West Bank since 1967. But whose fault is this? Israel acquired the West Bank after it was invaded by collective Arab armies in 67. And its Israel which made very significant land for peace offers in both 2000 and 2008 – which the Palestinians simply walked away from. As far as the Gaza blockade – thats what happens when you use your territory as a launching pad for terror. Israel pulled its settlers and army 100% out of Gaza in 2005 thinking that might bring about peace and maybe set a precedent for a similar withdrawal from the west Bank. The response was a non stop barrage of rockets into civilian territories. The water in Gaza is polluted mostly due to totally inadequate infastructure. Not because of Israeli bombs. And yes, the blockade has something to do with that, but that’s what happens when instead of developing your country you send Qassam rockets and missiles over to civilian targets in Israel.

And as far as Iran goes, Israel did appear to be behind that drone attack on an Iranian military factory over the weekend. Iran has made no secret of its intentions to destroy Israel.

What would you like the Israelis to do? They are surrounded by hostile entities who have been attacking them since Israel became a country in 1948. It might make you happy if the Israelis sat back like meek lambs and allowed themselves to be killed. But they stand up and defend themselves and I assume they will continue to.

To try to equate a people who are largely in a defensive position and who have never given even the slightest indication of wanting to take over any neighboring country (acquiring the West Bank when all of the collective Arab armies had lined up on Israel’;s borders gleefully announcing they were going to destroy the Jewish State in 1967 is not exactly an act of aggression) with Russia is just outrageous.

 

[MaryClare]

Whilst the debate of inclusion of certain countries within European sports federations is relevant to the discussion here, the complex politics of the Middle East is not.

I do feel that the topic was started with the intention of making a political point about Israel and hopefully one of the moderators will step in here soon

 

[JaJa]

Whilst the debate of inclusion of certain countries within European sports federations is relevant to the discussion here, the complex politics of the Middle East is not.

I agree. But I felt compelled to respond because the topic was, as you stated, clearly started – and then elaborated on – with the intention of making a political point about Israel in a manner which I feel was defamatory. I would welcome the mods putting an end to this entire thread and directing us back to discussing gymnastics. But I will not be silent when a people are defamed.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Of course it’s a political point. Children are being killed in Palestine by an invading force, no different than in Ukraine.

 

[MaryClare]

Children in many countries are being killed due to conflict, and have been since the Dawn of time. That’s what happens in a war unfortunately.

What does any of this have to do with gymnastics?

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I’m interrogating why certain federations are suspended when others are not, for the same acts.

To call what’s happening in Palestine a war is to dodge the obvious power imbalance and failure to name the aggressor.

 

[rlayt]

Moderator here: We need to end the political discussion. You know how this goes. Everything from this point will be deleted. Take further discussion to a private place.

 

[Doug1233]

Is it political to say that Israel isn’t a European country?

 

[Hatsumomo]

I had to go look it up and apparently Israel and Australia have a broadcaster operating out of Europe within the EBU and that’s why they get to compete in Eurovision.