Tom Forster resigns

[navyblue]

Man, my heart really goes out to Vanessa Atler – and not only because she was a sentimental fave from back when I started competing.

Did y’all watch the episode of “Golden” where she talked about her experiences? When she talked about trying to avoid passing down any intergenerational trauma to her daughter, who also does gymnastics, I just about lost it.

 

[navyblue]

Bela is specifically named in several lawsuits that target Marta and Bela both, for incidents after Bela was out of his formal position of power. Some are related to negligence vis-a-vis Nassar, but others claim specific physical abuse from the couple themselves.

 

[MaryClare]

Which lawsuits relating to after his retirement mention Bela?

 

[JaJa]

I think people genuinely think that elite sports can or should be warm and fuzzy

What it should be is basically irrelevant. What it can be is the issue. And I basically agree – it can not be warm and fuzzy. Extreme success in any sport means a good deal of sacrifice, self-denial and toughness. And it means giving up things that most people find necessary for a comfortable life. And none of this comes naturally to people – especially young people. So it has to be imposed. But “not warm and fuzzy” should never mean abuse. Where the line gets drawn is the issue.

 

[MaryClare]

Absolutely there should not be abuse. Putting athletes on restrictive diets is not abuse.

 

[JaJa]

Absolutely there should not be abuse. Putting athletes on restrictive diets is not abuse.

Agreed. Of course. My point is that it is very easy to slip across the line from imposing the necessary discipline into abuse. But it can also be very easy, when in reactive mode after the uncovering of years where there really was abuse, to start thinking all discipline and all toughness has to go. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater and ending up with a mediocre underperforming team

 

[navyblue]

This is the main point we are debating, that “after his retirement” is not tantamount to Bela’s influence on the ranch vanishing.

I wasn’t sure of the timeline myself, but I feel settled on the matter now.
This case states specifically that after he was replaced as NTC in 2000 he “continued to operate the ranch” through 3 different business entities that he profited from.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/02/01/jane.lm.doe.v..nassar,.karolyis.et.al.pdf

 

[MaryClare]

Yes, he owned the ranch and was resident there. But I think in a gymnastics context, when we mention “the ranch” we mean the national team training camps that took place at the gymnastics facility there. The Karolyi’s lived at the opposite end, they had to drive to the gym. I don’t think Bela’s business decisions, livestock management, irrigation activities or lumber jacking skills are relevant to what is being discussed here.

As I said, I am unaware of any athlete or coach mention any involvement from Bela following the end of his tenure

 

[JaJa]

I don’t think Bela’s business decisions, livestock management, irrigation activities or lumber jacking skills are relevant to what is being discussed here.

That place was like a 2,000 acre game preserve. I believe that was what they referred to when they said he “continued to operate the ranch.” If his activity was actually related directly to the gymnastics training camps that would have been stated. Just because someone is named in a law suit does not mean they really belong as a defendant.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

In fact, everything at the ranch was fairly close. The lodge (coaches quarters), the gyms and the cafeteria were all on the same road and within a 5 minute walk of each other. The Karolyi’s house was a five minute walk in the other direction.

 

[MaryClare]

When was this? I’m pretty certain that after Bela’s retirement and the lease of the gymnastic and accommodation facilities to USAG, that they lived pretty far away.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

My last visit was in 2008 for an International Friendship Cup competition - long after Bela had retired. I’ve been to the house on more than one occasion.

 

[JaJa]

But what did Bella’s activities consist of at that point? I don’t think it matters where their house was

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

For this event, Bela really no where to be seen during trainings or competition. I remember running into him (not literally) while he was driving his tractor on the road. For me, he really was not involved in any duties for USAG, maybe except for ensuring that the complex proper was in good working order.

 

[JaJa]

this event, Bela really no where to be seen during trainings or competition. I remember running into him (not literally) while he was driving his tractor on the road. For me, he really was not involved in any duties for USAG, maybe except for ensuring that the complex proper was in good working order.

Right. That was my (and I believe MC’s) point.

 

[onodian]

I don’t think i’ve ever had THREE downvotes on one post before

I just went and made it four, for all those times you meddled into my favourites with your F#@$ing downgrades :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

 

[JaJa]

I just went and made it four, for all those time you meddle into my favourites with your F#@$ing downgrades :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Okay. So you are not one of the funniest people. You are the funniest person.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

His back leg wasn’t square with his head when he posted.

 

[onodian]

I saw the heel drop before he was done with posting

 

[Denn]

And none of this comes naturally to people – especially young people. So it has to be imposed.

Totally false dichotomy.