Tom Forster resigns

[MaryClare]

Well, that’s the last time I’m doing that! Me and @Doug1233 agree on something and @navyblue votes both posts down?!

I’m genuinely interested though, what do you think elite gymnasts should be eating?

 

[JaJa]

Excess weight is a safety issue. You don’t go to the Olympics while gorging on candy.

Agreed agreed agreed. Excess weight is a safety and a performance issue obviously. Power to weight ratio critical in gymnastics.

 

[navyblue]

I don’t think the salient question is “what do think elite gymnasts should be eating”… (Though, I am curious how it is you got the inside scoop on the personal/home lives of enough American and British gymnasts to feel comfortable making that type of sweeping statement about their diets). Rather, the entire culture of reaction to post-USAG abuse, etc., has been a paradigm shift toward believing, or at the very minimum, taking seriously the claims these young women have levied. Saying “I doubt” and “I remain convinced” is merely a reflection of your own beliefs and assumptions, unless you truly have first-hand testimony from the ranch.

And then, it’s almost hard to conjure up a more cliched attitude than “this TikTok entitlement to do whatever you want”, as if that were even remotely germane to the personalities of these super deferential, super type-A, super dedicated young athletes who have to come up with personalized learning plans to balance school work with 40 hour training weeks. But it’s very much in line with the retrograde attitudes of USAG admin/coaching staff, and I think something of a generational shake-up is necessary to evolve beyond that point of view which simultaneously built a sports culture that centered its resources and energies on teenage girls while condescending and belittling their points of view.

Now, look – I don’t doubt that a bit of teenage cynicism might have creeped into the broader discourse. And I don’t doubt that some gymnasts have shit diets, though I hardly see the point in trying to exercise control during a weeklong training camp, as if that’s going to radically alter her physiology. Nor do I think that Kelly Hill offering some candid commentary that goes against the grain is something that should be wholesale disqualifying from a leadership position. But she should be aware of the optics of what she’s communicating publicly. Which is to say, if she had been a super vocal advocate for justice for say, the dozens of sex abuse survivors, she might have earned enough social capital to afford a few ‘counterpoint’ or ‘balance’-type comments. But if defending the cafeteria food of this rural Texas ranch is her first impulse for speaking up – well that’s obviously gonna create a negative perception, regardless of whether she’s right or not.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Given that Aly once said she didn’t feel able to eat an apple, not much would surprise me. There clearly wasn’t anything much in the way of nutritional and dietary expertise going on for a lot of Marta’s tenure, not a great shock when USAG had her unqualified daughter taking care of that for them.

 

[MaryClare]

Didn’t feel able is quite different from not being able. Which is think is probably the point that Kelli Hill was making.

I imagine the general atmosphere at the ranch meant that the gymnasts felt they were under constant scrutiny, but that’s quite different from starving the athletes

 

[irichluck21]

Andrea Karolyi, Marta and Bela’s daughter was the nutritionist for the camp.
The food was healthy obviously but there was a certified nutritionist.
However, there was more protein, fruit, vegetables than anything else.
Gymnast NEED carbohydrates and that was a big no no no at camp. Like no bread.
I also imagine portions were limited.

It is clear that they have always managed food. Sacramone was caught on TV at Olympic Trials in 2008 backstage near the judges’ snack table and she said loudly (with Peszek next to her) WE DIDN’T EAT ANY OF IT!

These athletes need to be on a certain diet due to the nature of the sport. But there are some horrible myths that were followed. Also, it does no good to anyone if a staff member is controlling food intake at all time. The ladies need to learn how to manage their diet.

 

[MaryClare]

What on earth?! No. Gymnasts do NOT need carbohydrates. It’s not an aerobic/endure sport. They are a poor source of energy.

That’s not to say that carbohydrates should be efficiently banned, but they do need to be restricted and it is generally seen as kinder to provide athletes, especially teenage athletes with food they can eat in almost unlimited quantities than with food where their intake would have to be restricted.

 

[onodian]

Aly once said she didn’t feel able to eat an apple

Maybe the deal is they had to eat the apple on a given musical pulse? Cause I’d say she’d be definitely unable of doing that

 

[rlayt]

Not all carbs are equal and bad.

Are carbohydrates "bad" for the gymnast?

Are carbohydrates bad for the gymnast? Most want to know if they are "fattening" if we really get down to it.

christinaandersonrdn.com

Food for Gymnastics - Sports Dietitians Australia (SDA)

Gymnastics is a dynamic sport that incorporates seven disciplines; men's and women's artistic gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, trampolining, sports aerobics, sports acrobatics and cheerleading.

www.sportsdietitians.com.au

Gymnastics Sports Nutrition | American Dairy Association NE

Sports Nutrition for Gymnasts. Get gymnastics nutrition advice from our sports nutrition advisory panel experts.

www.americandairy.com

Nutrition For Gymnasts

It’s undeniable that gymnastics is a tough sport. The demands gymnastics puts on young gymnasts is beyond any other sport out there. Not only must gymnasts have the strength to perform challenging …

gymnasticshq.com

https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/good-carbs-runners-7756.html

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The question of whether there’s a difference practically speaking takes us to the issue of why Aly thought this: would there have been any negative repercussions if she had helped herself to the apple? Where did she get this idea from?

None of this is to say Kelli wasn’t telling her own truth, however. I do also remember an interview on GGMB years ago with Elise Ray, who had an anecdote about a group of gymnasts and coaches having gone out to an Italian restaurant after a competition, and some of the coaches telling the gymnasts not to eat all their meals but Kelli saying Elise should finish hers. Elise was a little before the Marta era, but does suggest Kelli may have had a different attitude to some of the other coaches around her then.

 

[MaryClare]

Yes, I remember that sorry. But it was a team meal, presumably a treat, at a restaurant. Not a training camp.

There’s a massive difference between not allowing gymnasts to eat carbs at a training camp and trying to restrict what they are eating at a celebratory meal

 

[rlayt]

Speaking of Aly she had several interviews where she talked about her consultation with a private nutritionist. She ate as explained in the following article, with discipline but NOT carb-free.

This Is What Aly Raisman’s Olympic Diet Was Actually Like, and Why It’s Inspiring

She's tough in the gym, and with her food choices.

spoonuniversity.com

If you read Shannon Miller’s book you might remember there was a recipe that included potatoes.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Sure, I’m not weighing in on the carbs point. I mentioned the story as an example of Kelli perhaps not having the same attitude to diet as the coaches around her.

eta- just realised weighing in was a bad choice of words there by me!

 

[navyblue]

All of this armchair nutrition science (one of the flimsiest domains of science, honestly) is simply besides the point, in my opinion. USAG, unlike some other countries with centralized/state-backed programs, does not command total authority in the lives of their gymnasts, including their diets, so turning these very brief conventions of elite team members into a referendum on their diets makes little sense to me, as they will simply return to their typical lifestyles and diets at home, and if anything runs the risk of throwing gymnasts off their game by interrupting their natural routines and food staples, which (I can say as a former high-level gymnast) can be particularly egregious during an extra strenuous and stressful week. (I’m talking about diarrhea, y’all!)

 

[irichluck21]

What on earth?! No. Gymnasts do NOT need carbohydrates. It’s not an aerobic/endure sport. They are a poor source of energy.

They need SOME carbohydrates. To restrict all of them is not good,

 

[Doug1233]

would there have been any negative repercussions if she had helped herself to the apple? Where did she get this idea from?

Didn’t she also say she was scared to ask for soap?

The problem was that they were terrified of the staff.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yes I think so, or someone did anyway.

I think ultimately there was a lot going on around the camps that was wrong, but there’s a cohort of people who at minimum didn’t show much in the way of sense when it came to nutrition, many of whom would’ve spent much of their gymnastics lives around awful dietary practices. The people in the camp system never really justified any assumption that they’d be behaving sensibly. I don’t even mean anything necessarily malicious here, rather an environment where there’s not proper expertise, things are amateurish, and everyone seems ok with that. You have a situation where USAG never did that properly because they genuinely don’t seem to have realised how useful it might be.

 

[rlayt]

And individuals can have individual needs based on their particular body. We don’t all have the exact same body chemistry etc.

 

[MaryClare]

Clearly outside expertise was a massive no. That became apparent with everything that came out surrounding Nasser. If alternative doctors were frowned upon, you can bet that dieticians and sports psychologists were too.

 

[navyblue]

Exactly – you’re not gonna find a lot of space cleared to make way for nutrition experts from an organization that in some cases condoned or outright encouraged disordered eating.