Tom Forster added to USAG selection committee

[Pisenlit3]

'Potential' isn't the same thing as actual scores received and known, especially not when we're talking about Grace McCallum. Skinner's overall scores in Tokyo were higher, this is just a fact. 7.1 beam execution score and all. That's the best data we have.

Even then, there are three events not four, so why are you excluding one? By the same token, we should give equal airtime to a hypothetical that excludes beam. And actually that would make more sense, since the 4th was always more likely to be used on vault than anything else given Suni's strengths and injury.

########## I talk about why they chose Grace over Skinner, she was always the better aa and could score better than Myk at her best. Obviously she underperformed but that something the selection commitee couldn't know.

Moderator note: We can make a point without insults and condescension. Please do so.

 

[Pisenlit3]

We have to remember that Skinner hit the meet of her life. McCallum did not and would have placed ahead of Skinner in the AA. McCallum was missing a CR and thus was missing .5 from her start value. That simple error alone was the reason for Skinner finishing ahead of McCallum.

Had McCallum completed the CR she would have been ranked 10th AA ahead of Skinner (11th) and MDJDS (10th).

McCallum was over .6 higher in her beam score in team finals.


It is also interesting that people argue Skinner over McCallum when in hindsight Jordan was the worst of the bunch the entire games. Fell off bars and beam in TQ and then fell on floor in team finals.

Ultimately the argument for Grace was bars and beam and that is what Skinner could not and did not deliver. 7.100 in execution for a hit routine is not what USA was looking for.

Additionally, Trials is not the only criteria for choosing the teams, which yes going by all around rankings frees the selection committee of criticism because it is the "fairest". But also Grace was two time World champion with the team, having competed multiple routines in team finals.

Thank you !! You took the words out of my mouth

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Use your brain a little bit, I talk about why they chose Grace over Skinner, she was always the better aa and could score better than Myk at her best. Obviously she underperformed but that something the selection commitee couldn't know.

Using your brain only a little bit appears to be what got you into this pickle in the first place.

It is a fact that Skinner's AA results were better than those McCallum got in TFs (and indeed prelims). This means the US would've been better, not worse off if they'd used her, based on the only data that actually matters. This isn't a complex point, as @MaryClare explained.

Arguing that someone had more potential on a carefully curated selection of events doesn't affect that. It particularly doesn't affect it when we're talking about someone with as many unfulfilled upgrades and consistency as patchy as McCallum.

And none of this is incompatible with thinking Grace was the better choice when it came to selection. But she was a valid pick despite Skinner having done better than her in the end. A strong argument will embrace and explain this, instead of trying to brush it under the carpet.

 

[Pisenlit3]

##########
Your argument is based on hindsight. It's not because Skinner got the best results that it's means she was the best choice. Yes with her score she would have contributed more but it doesn't change the fact that Grace was better than her. ###########

Moderator note: Condescending and insulting content removed.

 

[Puffin]

Surely the US would have been better off with Jade on the team?

 

[Pisenlit3]

Surely the US would have been better off with Jade on the team?

Oh sure but she chose her own path

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

You are definetly slow asf...
Your argument is based on hindsight. It's not because Skinner got the best results that it's means she was the best choice. Yes with her score she would have contributed more but it doesn't change the fact that Grace was better than her. The lack of intelligence in this sub is insane.

Yes, obviously saying which one did better is hindsight. No shit sherlock. When things have already happened, like for example gymnastics competitions, we can look back on those things and recollect them.

A little tip for you, attempting to condescend to an entire sub requires you to sound smart.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Surely the US would have been better off with Jade on the team?

Oh absolutely, and for me that's the most interesting thought experiment here. It would never have happened at the time, not least because she was injured. But if the US had known how good Russia were going to look, how the scoring would go and that Jade would be fine by the Games, would people have been more inclined to accept the possibility of sacrificing a spot to shore up the gold? By people I probably don't include Tom.

 

[Puffin]

Oh sure but she chose her own path

But she wanted to be on the team as a first choice

 

[BB12]

Jade made the correct choice to take the guaranteed spot. I think it allowed her to be paced much better then most of the other US athletes to peak at the Olympics instead of at trials.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Jade made the correct choice to take the guaranteed spot. I think it allowed her to be paced much better then most of the other US athletes to peak at the Olympics instead of at trials.

It was the smart choice. However, Tom and USAG should have made it clear at the beginning to Brian and Jade that if they go for the guaranteed spot route, they cannot go for a team spot.

That whole 4-member team plus two individual spots was kind of silly anyway.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

It was the smart choice. However, Tom and USAG should have made it clear at the beginning to Brian and Jade that if they go for the guaranteed spot route, they cannot go for a team spot.

That whole 4-member team plus two individual spots was kind of silly anyway.

It was byzantine and I can see why they got rid of it... but I did like the concept of athletes getting a way round federation shenanigans. I know the programmes still had to be willing to send the athletes anyway so it wasn't entirely bypassing them, but in practice they pretty much all did. And one can totally see why Jade Carey didn't want her Olympic qualification in the hands of that federation. Whereas the continental individual spots didn't even have that redeeming feature.

Agree USAG needed to clearly spell out the rules. Although it would've been a shame for us all to miss out on Tom Forster's plainitive appeals to the FIG to explain whether Jade was allowed to come to Trials or not.

 

[irichluck21]

Any off topic, personal attacks have been deleted.

Any further posts containing personal attacks will be deleted.

 

[irichluck21]

In 2018 Jade was just adding elite bars to her all around, previously in 2017 she had been a specialist.
Her bars were not able to score into the 13s in 2018. So in a 4 up 3 count situation at the Olympics, Jade was not ideal for that format. She was ideal for a +1 though and that was her ticket to the team.

Of course USAG did not want her to go for the nominative spot as once it was earned must be used or forfeited.

The fact that Jade and Brian suddenly stated they wanted to make a run for the actual team after securing a +1 was IMO selfish. Especially when she had to take herself out of contention for the 2018 Worlds, where the US could have used her vault and floor.

Smart choice was to go for the +1 because in 2018 no one could have predicted that Jade would improve enough on bars that when she competed in the Olympics she would manage a 14. in qualification. In 2018 it didn't appear that Jade could provide an Olympics level all around having had the bars weakness. She also had an extra year with the COVID postponement of Tokyo to train bars.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

In 2018 Jade was just adding elite bars to her all around, previously in 2017 she had been a specialist.
Her bars were not able to score into the 13s in 2018. So in a 4 up 3 count situation at the Olympics, Jade was not ideal for that format. She was ideal for a +1 though and that was her ticket to the team.

Of course USAG did not want her to go for the nominative spot as once it was earned must be used or forfeited.

The fact that Jade and Brian suddenly stated they wanted to make a run for the actual team after securing a +1 was IMO selfish. Especially when she had to take herself out of contention for the 2018 Worlds, where the US could have used her vault and floor.

Smart choice was to go for the +1 because in 2018 no one could have predicted that Jade would improve enough on bars that when she competed in the Olympics she would manage a 14. in qualification. In 2018 it didn't appear that Jade could provide an Olympics level all around having had the bars weakness. She also had an extra year with the COVID postponement of Tokyo to train bars.

USAG really were in shambles at that point also. The individual route probably felt less unpredictable.