Event (FIG) Scoring Worlds Routines

[KristyJ]

From studying the WTC presentations on the COP and the examples in STS, my impression is that this is exactly what the judges are being instructed to do - to be able to see everything in real time or else deduct.

As a refresher, we had this discussion about a year ago and most of us agreed that the WTC's approach is overly strict.

Denn's initial remarks:

Post in thread '2025 - 2028 WAG COP - A Deeper Dive'

Nov 15, 2024

So this is –0.5. I mean, it's not the best, but 0.5???????

This is –0.1. Why??

• Denn

• 

My response explaining what I believe to be the WTC's posiiton:

C

Post in thread '2025 - 2028 WAG COP - A Deeper Dive'

Nov 24, 2024

A Few Notes Regarding the Evaluation of Dance Elements:

Based on examples in STS, gymnasts need to be showing full positions in real time to avoid body shape deductions.

Example:

Real Time - Split jump appears to be just short of 180 degree split
Slow Motion /Freeze Frame - Split jump attains 180 degree split
Judging Result -> 0.1 deduction for body shape

Obviously things like the quality of the video(clarity, frame rate, angle, etc.) can make an element look better or worse than it does in person so I can understand why you are posting the still images. Also, I do agree with a number...

• Concorde

• 

Interesting given that is literally counter to training at regional conferences I went through back when I was actively judging (mind you not brevet, though Cheryl Hamilton ran that one). It's not a good evolution of the sport, I don't think, to require oversplit.

 

[KristyJ]

Nobody said anything about holding an oversplit. The split should be clear in real time though (with both legs at minimum of horizontal, unless it's a sissone or tour jete).

Great jumps have suspension in the air and leave an impression of the position. When someone is only barely hitting split for a microsecond, with the legs mostly uneven throughout and immediately jerking downward after lifting up, the overall impression is marred. It's not the same quality, it wouldn't be accepted in ballet, and we don't judge any other element based on some tiny sliver of the amount of time the gymnast was performing it.

When the heck did I ever say something about uneven or jerky movements? You can have a floaty jump with even leg movement that does not attain oversplit.

The reason I mention oversplit is that it is almost necessary to go past 180 for many to see 180, because split jumps do hit that position quickly.

 

[Aeris]

You can have a floaty jump with even leg movement that does not attain oversplit.

Yes...and those jumps of Flavia's weren't floaty and with even leg movement. Not that the legs should have to be exactly even, just at least horizontal at the same time, but her front leg is too low for too much of the runtime of each skill.

Directly comparing split leaps, Kui Yuanyuan and Kara Eaker's are an example of something that's better than what Flavia did, without having oversplit. There's a more effortless rise and descend, not the front leg lurching downward or seemingly struggling to hit horizontal, and both legs visibly horizontal at the same time. I think Nastia's switch 1/2 is another example of creating a clear split in the air without oversplit.

 

[onodian]

Omg we're having lengthy discussions about oversplits... have we become RG already?

 

[Concorde]

So Malabuyo got a 4.9 D on beam in the end. She was going for 5.1.

Will we ever know if it was the split ring that got downgraded (down to split jump repeat - count B split jump) or they didn’t give the front aerial to two jumps CV/SB.

Here is her routine from qualifications:



I would have credited the Aerial + Split Jump + Straddle Jump connection. We don’t have a good angle to make an accurate assessment of the Split Ring Jump, but based on the insufficient arch seen in the podium training videos, I think it was probably downgraded to a Split Jump.

 

[Denn]

We spend so much time discussing this stuff — as does the technical committee and all judges all around the world.

To me, that's a symptom of the fact that the rule is not natural and does not work. Too many cases.

The general principle should be "Credit the nearest element and deduct from deviating from the ideal position." And the D-panel should be required to share anything doubtful with the E-panel.

 

[navyblue]

Start at 2:07 for Aleah Finnegan


acro series: 1 prep/pause before, otherwise perfect
straddle jump: 0
switch split: 0 (see slow-mo)
split jump: 1 balance check.
turn: 0
side aerial: 1 excessive prep, 1 flexed left foot
front aerial: 1 bent leg , 1 balance check
dismount: legs apart on landing 1
artistry: Choreo is LOVELY and stylish. She has a slower pace, and it's a breath of fresh air after all the frantic "dance" so many gymnasts do. Maybe you deduct something. Lack of relevee?

E-score: 9.2.
Judges score: 7.933 What the fuck is that?

Basically all of Aleah Finnegan's routines in elite have been prime exhibits of the fraudulence of the current E panels and proof of the compulsion to clump scores together.

She is competing watered down, technically excellent routines on Floor and Beam that count B- skills, and still the judges end up with an E-score close to what the event finalists packed with difficulty end up getting. And unlike other low difficulty gymnasts, whose lower difficulty reflects the hardest skills they can perform, Aleah's routines look easy for her because they are. And yet....

She is the answer to our question of, "what would a strong NCAA routine score in Elite"? And the answer is like, 8.0, apparently.

 

[Concorde]

At what point would she get a Double Pike for the DLO? I know the rule is “a majority” of the salto shows “any” pike. That’s really a tough call to make in real time from a desk 40 feet away.

The criteria the WTC gives in STS for downgrading a double layout to a double pike is when the gymnast shows pike upon entry to the second salto. Caylor is fine in this regard because she maintains the layout position until she is almost inverted.

I recall Jen Gad in Tokyo finals got her Chuso downgraded to a Full In Pike, right?

Correct

 

[KristyJ]

The general principle should be "Credit the nearest element and deduct from deviating from the ideal position." And the D-panel should be required to share anything doubtful with the E-panel.

This. 1000 times this.