Event (FIG) Scoring Worlds Routines

[Denn]

I can't get to 8.333 without making up deductions.

• BHS mount: -1 sIightly crooked (nice save!)
• spin: -1 slight loss of balance
• BHS + layout: -1 pause before, balance check at the end
• switch ring leap: -1 balance check. gorgeous shape!
• front aerial + split ring jump: -1 for rhythm of connection, if it was credited.
• side somie: -3 for balance check (bending forward). maybe harsh.
• split leap + split jump. 0 for me. Watch in slow mo. MAYBE you could justify being tilted on the second element. Yet, I bet every judge deducted a couple tenths...
• dismount 0.1, for not opening up and landing bent over and 0.1 hop. Hard to see in the video... Maybe feet? or an extra hop? 0.1 extra just in case.
• Artistry: –1 lack of fluency. Her choreo is pretty but kind of generic, but there's no deduction for lack of creativity.
• That's 8.8 from me

BTW... Some people have pointed out that some of our write-ups get very long. Let's try to be succinct. (Hope I did okay just now!)

 

[Aeris]

The full turn gets precision for being overturned, front leg below horizontal on the split leap and jump (and probably they took slow connection deduction), dismount has leg separation + flexed feet in addition to the chest position on landing and the step. Side somi just a .1 balance check and then the artistry deductions varied between .1 and .2 I'm sure, for the end result of either 8.3 or 8.4E

 

[Denn]

Judging the same way I scored Saraiva:

• layout full: 1 feet, 1 legs apart, 1 legs bent, 1 crooked, 1 balance check
• switch split + split jump: slow motion shows full splits, maybe slight imperfections. 1 rhythm of connection
• BHS + back layout: 1 legs apart, 1 feet, 1 balance check, 1 height?
• spin: precision, balance check 3
• front aerial: clearly bent leg, not straight 1, balance check 1
• side aerial: 1 feet, 1 off balance
• switch split + BHS: 1 crooked in the air
• roundoff
• BHS: 1 pause, 1 legs apart, 1 legs bent
• double tuck — 1 feet flexed, 1 feet apart (even though her knees are together), 1 low chest, 2 steps
• 1 lack of fluency, I guess.

E-score: 7.3

Nowhere near what Saraiva did. Not even close.

 

[Denn]

No. Saraiva's split leap hits a GREAT position.

I feel that the split jump, below, is fine, too. Because she's a little oversplit, the back leg is high, but the front leg is horizontal. It looks overall tilted slightly, but again, humans, not computers. Only a jerk would deduct this.

She actually intends to do a quarter turn out of the full turn. She goes straight into the choreo there. Benefit to the gymnast.

@Aeris Your math ain't mathing. I already had two of those deductions (.1 for feet on the dismount and .1 for artistry) and you gave back 0.2 I took off. Even accepting your deductions on the turn, split leap, and jump, you only have 0.2 or 0.3 more than I did, if you deduct the connection of the dance series. So 8.5 or 8.6 from you.

 

[Denn]

Start at 2:07 for Aleah Finnegan


acro series: 1 prep/pause before, otherwise perfect
straddle jump: 0
switch split: 0 (see slow-mo)
split jump: 1 balance check.
turn: 0
side aerial: 1 excessive prep, 1 flexed left foot
front aerial: 1 bent leg , 1 balance check
dismount: legs apart on landing 1
artistry: Choreo is LOVELY and stylish. She has a slower pace, and it's a breath of fresh air after all the frantic "dance" so many gymnasts do. Maybe you deduct something. Lack of relevee?

E-score: 9.2.
Judges score: 7.933 What the fuck is that?

 

[Denn]

Some stills — oversplit in the first two and 180° in the third.

 

[Doug1233]

Yurchenko half on - piked barani off.

4.2.

Outrageous.

 

[RedBirdie]

Yeah, Roberson got absolutely fucked by the judges there.

 

[Aeris]

@Denn For Saraiva's routine it's +.2 on the side somi but -.3 on the leap series, .-2 on the dismount (if you only took 2 deductions, if you took 3 your E score is 8.7), .-1 on the turn, and .-1 more on artistry could be justified. That's why I'm saying the 8.333 definitely is fair with the rules. They actually could take an extra .1 for "step without choreography" before the acro series if being especially cruel (hate that rule so much).

You can't judge leaps by freeze frames. In real time they should have a HELD full split. Watch a good ballerina and the leap appears to hang in the air in the position before descending. The descent should also be clean. The way most gymnasts try to do split leaps, including this one here, they are dropping their front leg too quickly, trying to jam it down for stability. The position should never look like this (unless trying to land with the back leg held at horizontal scale):

Even in freeze frame on Sairaiva's split jump, that front leg is not perfectly at horizontal. Yes the back leg is slightly above horizontal so overall the leap is (very briefly) at a 180 split, but both legs have to be at horizontal.

 

[Denn]

@Aeris You are making up rules just to punish gymnasts more.

You should judge WAG.

 

[Doug1233]

Does anyone have a side video of Leanne’s DTY.

I see one of her legs was fully bent in the air. I continue to believe that the fujitsu judge flagged this as a tucked DTY. I don’t think a human would have even thought of crediting that as a tucked DTY but, technically, it’s probably right per the body shape rules.

As a side note, I’m not sure if the twink in the video screaming “both hands Leanne!” as she was sprinting down the runway on her Cheng was much help!

 

[KristyJ]

I can't get to 8.333 without making up deductions.

• BHS mount: -1 sIightly crooked (nice save!)
• spin: -1 slight loss of balance
• BHS + layout: -1 pause before, balance check at the end
• switch ring leap: -1 balance check. gorgeous shape!
• front aerial + split ring jump: -1 for rhythm of connection, if it was credited.
• side somie: -3 for balance check (bending forward). maybe harsh.
• split leap + split jump. 0 for me. Watch in slow mo. MAYBE you could justify being tilted on the second element. Yet, I bet every judge deducted a couple tenths...
• dismount 0.1, for not opening up and landing bent over and 0.1 hop. Hard to see in the video... Maybe feet? or an extra hop? 0.1 extra just in case.
• Artistry: –1 lack of fluency. Her choreo is pretty but kind of generic, but there's no deduction for lack of creativity.
• That's 8.8 from me

BTW... Some people have pointed out that some of our write-ups get very long. Let's try to be succinct. (Hope I did okay just now!)

.1 for the pirouette being inexact, .1 for feet on side somi (but I also only took .1 for the balance there so even till here). .1 leg separation on the dismount. Artistry maybe variation of rhythm and if they felt picky about releve? It's an absolutely awful angle to judge the leaps/jumps, so there could've been something there on the ring. So I guess I get it to an 8.5ish unless the ring has something I can't see.

Editing in a reply on Leanne's vault here so I don't triple post-- Calling that DTY tucked is a crime to gymnastics and the WTC had better have nightmares about it tonight.

 

[KristyJ]

You can't judge leaps by freeze frames. In real time they should have a HELD full split.

I've said it before and you didn't believe me then either, so I am not fully sure why I am even trying, but judges literally train to see the split without it having to be obvious to a tv screen over time. The idea that you have to hold an oversplit split for a count mid-air is something coming from you, not the code.

 

[Matilda23]

Is there a deduction for Dulcy Caylor’s double layout on FX? In quals she seemed to pike down a bit early? Or is that acceptable. Thanks

 

[Concorde]

I've said it before and you didn't believe me then either, so I am not fully sure why I am even trying, but judges literally train to see the split without it having to be obvious to a tv screen over time. The idea that you have to hold an oversplit split for a count mid-air is something coming from you, not the code.

From studying the WTC presentations on the COP and the examples in STS, my impression is that this is exactly what the judges are being instructed to do - to be able to see everything in real time or else deduct.

As a refresher, we had this discussion about a year ago and most of us agreed that the WTC's approach is overly strict.

Denn's initial remarks:

Post in thread '2025 - 2028 WAG COP - A Deeper Dive'

Nov 15, 2024

So this is –0.5. I mean, it's not the best, but 0.5???????

This is –0.1. Why??

• Denn

• 

My response explaining what I believe to be the WTC's posiiton:

C

Post in thread '2025 - 2028 WAG COP - A Deeper Dive'

Nov 24, 2024

A Few Notes Regarding the Evaluation of Dance Elements:

Based on examples in STS, gymnasts need to be showing full positions in real time to avoid body shape deductions.

Example:

Real Time - Split jump appears to be just short of 180 degree split
Slow Motion /Freeze Frame - Split jump attains 180 degree split
Judging Result -> 0.1 deduction for body shape

Obviously things like the quality of the video(clarity, frame rate, angle, etc.) can make an element look better or worse than it does in person so I can understand why you are posting the still images. Also, I do agree with a number...

• Concorde

• 

 

[Concorde]

Is there a deduction for Dulcy Caylor’s double layout on FX? In quals she seemed to pike down a bit early? Or is that acceptable. Thanks

Yes - Caylor is likely receiving a deduction for failure to maintain stretched body posture / piking too early because she is piking before her body has hit a completely inverted position on the second salto.

 

[Denn]

Thanks for the reminders of that discussion, Concorde.

The WTC either needs to pivot as of January 1 or they should be dismissed completely. And every federation should be calling for this.

 

[Doug1233]

Yes - Caylor is likely receiving a deduction for failure to maintain stretched body posture / piking too early because she is piking before her body has hit a completely inverted position on the second salto.

At what point would she get a Double Pike for the DLO? I know the rule is “a majority” of the salto shows “any” pike. That’s really a tough call to make in real time from a desk 40 feet away.

I recall Jen Gad in Tokyo finals got her Chuso downgraded to a Full In Pike, right?

Also very risky for her to have a DLO and a Double Pike as a dmt.

 

[Aeris]

The idea that you have to hold an oversplit split for a count mid-air is something coming from you, not the code.

Nobody said anything about holding an oversplit. The split should be clear in real time though (with both legs at minimum of horizontal, unless it's a sissone or tour jete).

Great jumps have suspension in the air and leave an impression of the position. When someone is only barely hitting split for a microsecond, with the legs mostly uneven throughout and immediately jerking downward after lifting up, the overall impression is marred. It's not the same quality, it wouldn't be accepted in ballet, and we don't judge any other element based on some tiny sliver of the amount of time the gymnast was performing it.

You should judge WAG.

If I was in charge of WAG then Flavia's routine would be 8.9E (or slightly higher, since 0.05 deduction increments should be a thing). Which includes deductions for each of those imperfect leaps she did.

 

[Doug1233]

So Malabuyo got a 4.9 D on beam in the end. She was going for 5.1.

Will we ever know if it was the split ring that got downgraded (down to split jump repeat - count B split jump) or they didn’t give the front aerial to two jumps CV/SB.

She was originally putting the split ring before her leap series which would mean, if downgraded, she would have lost the 0.5CR and the 0.2 SB/CV connection.



She then got feedback from the judges to move it to after the leaps. Which she did in the meet.