Revisiting Past Age Falsifications

[RedBirdie]

And a follow-up to the Gymnastics History link posted earlier

How Romania Broke the Age Rules and Why the FIG Looked Away – Gymnastics History

 

[phoenix7]

Didn’t Silivas say in an interview, that she didn’t want short hair but someone in the federation made her cut her hair.

Short hair for women was in fashion at the time but more like Dorte Thummler’s hair at Seoul. Though maybe in the East it was a different style (Silivas, Ulrike Klotz in 88).

I listened to an interview once (the skating lesson? Or an American TV production?) where she explained that the gymnasts all gave each other trendy short cuts before the Seoul Olympics in 1988. Executives from the FRG had fits at the results and conducted them to Bucharest's finest hair salon to undo the damage ...

 

[IratePanda]

The Romanians had

Didn’t Silivas say in an interview, that she didn’t want short hair but someone in the federation made her cut her hair.

Short hair for women was in fashion at the time but more like Dorte Thummler’s hair at Seoul. Though maybe in the East it was a different style (Silivas, Ulrike Klotz in 88).

Klotz had a full-on mullet, which was a very popular style for American guys back then.

Fun fact: From ages 14-16, I had the same haircut as Gabrielle Faehnrich/GDR. At the end of tenth grade (1986), I started growing my hair and eventually got a perm with poufy bangs. I consciously avoided the Romanian poodlehead. In fact, when my best friend learned that I was getting a perm, she said, "If you show up at school looking like Daniela Fucking Silivas, I'll pretend I don't know you."

 

[phoenix7]

And a follow-up to the Gymnastics History link posted earlier

How Romania Broke the Age Rules and Why the FIG Looked Away – Gymnastics History

It's all really interesting stuff - thank you. I do think you'd need to add a couple of points to get the full picture - first, that the USSR engaged in exactly the same practice, starting as far as I can see at exactly the same time - 1981. Obviously didn't continue so long (the gymnastics or the state), although we have had whispers now about Karpenko.

Second, anyone like me whose (alas, unedited) passport shows a birthdate before the 1980s, will remember very well the horrors that emerged from Romania and Romanian orphanages especially after 1989. I'm not surprised that the press there was relatively unmoved by revelations about teenagers being slightly younger teenagers, at that point. The analysis is really interesting and seems symptomatic of the continuing problems with both FIG and FRG, but the falsifications themselves I don't find particularly surprising. Certainly content that the statute of limitations applies. If you try to retcon 1981-86 in particular without falsifications, things get very complex very fast!

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Does anyone remember that hot mic that Martha was caught on at 2013 worlds PT complaining about the Chinese Gymnasts’ ages?

 

[phoenix7]

I remember @MaryClare explaining that using hairspray was a serious status symbol in 1980s USSR, so I'm guessing something like that was going on with 1988 Romanian hair (not just Silivas's) too!

Maybe that is why Silivas as gold medal hope got the very biggest hair.

 

[phoenix7]

Does anyone remember that hot mic that Martha was caught on at 2013 worlds PT complaining about the Chinese Gymnasts’ ages?

I didn't know about that! But Bart Conner's commentary in 1985 suggests that nobody was too bothered about Romanian ages back then ...

 

[IratePanda]

Just to put Chinese age falsification into context, various forms of cheating were (and maybe still are) rampant in the PRC. When I studied there in the early 90s, I knew several college students who were several years older than their official age. Apparently, they were too old to sit for the university entrance exams, so they fudged some paperwork to make themselves eligible. When I taught English there several years later, my students shamelessly copied one another's homework and exams. When I questioned one of the better students about it, she said she felt obligated to help classmates with weaker English. If she didn't, they might fail--and also blame her for being stuck-up and individualistic. It was all a means to an end.

And don't even get me started on bribery. When I wanted to travel during Chinese New Year, I nearly failed to get train tickets because I didn't make it worth the station master's while. The same student who explained cheating to me said, "Silly girl, you should have given him a carton of cigarettes and a big bottle of mao tai."

Lest you think society was entirely Machiavellian, I did have a number of wonderful experiences that didn't involve a quid pro quo. But I've already digressed enough.

 

[MaryClare]

I remember @MaryClare explaining that using hairspray was a serious status symbol in 1980s USSR, so I'm guessing something like that was going on with 1988 Romanian hair (not just Silivas's) too!

Maybe that is why Silivas as gold medal hope got the very biggest hair.

Yes that is true. When my grandmother was a ballet student (1960s) they had to use home made things to slick back their hair, hairspray was reserved for performances only. However I would doubt that by the 80s it was particularly difficult to get hairspray especially for elite athletes. But yes, if you look at the fashions of the USSR and other eastern bloc countries, “big hair” was a bit of a status symbol for decades. Whether it be bouffants in the 60s or mullets in the 80s.

The one thing I am not sure about is the prevalence of yarn instead of ribbons. I don’t think ribbons were in short supply. Big ribbons were and still are commonplace for girls on the first day of school. When I asked my grandmother about it, she looked at me as if I was some uneducated peasant and said Lara I have never tied pieces of wool my daughters hair. Mind you, she’s a ballet teacher and I work in artistic gymnastics, so she probably does think I’m an uneducated peasant.

The only sort of political/cultural explanation I can think of for the short hair is that quite often, communist countries wanted to portray themselves as more progressive/modern than the West particularly regarding how the role of women is viewed.

 

[eanda]

In the 1976 special Nadia from Romania, with Flip Wilson, Szabo is shown as a seven-year-old. Presuming this exhibition took place in 1976 (it looks like 1976 Nadia, rather than 1975), was this just a mistake, or has there been anything else suggesting Szabo was really born in 1969? She says 1968 and her birthday was changed to 1967.

I'm another who didn't buy into the Silivas love.

 

[IratePanda]

In the 1976 special Nadia from Romania, with Flip Wilson, Szabo is shown as a seven-year-old. Presuming this exhibition took place in 1976 (it looks like 1976 Nadia, rather than 1975), was this just a mistake, or has there been anything else suggesting Szabo was really born in 1969? She says 1968 and her birthday was changed to 1967.

I'm another who didn't buy into the Silivas love.

Karolyi said in his memoir (or maybe it was MLR's) that Szabo was 15 in LA, which would make 1969 totally plausible. But we have to consider the source.

 

[MaryClare]

In the 1976 special Nadia from Romania, with Flip Wilson, Szabo is shown as a seven-year-old. Presuming this exhibition took place in 1976 (it looks like 1976 Nadia, rather than 1975), was this just a mistake, or has there been anything else suggesting Szabo was really born in 1969? She says 1968 and her birthday was changed to 1967.

I'm another who didn't buy into the Silivas love.

If Szabó was born in 1969, she won junior euros when she was 11