Random gymnastics questions

[Sasha]

I figured we could use a thread just for little points of curiosity that don't necessarily warrant their own individual threads.

I have a question to start. I don't watch a lot of MAG, but I've been watching the British Championships WAG/MAG AA extravaganza this morning, and I noticed that the men and women have very different hand placement in their roundoffs: the men reach well in front of their body with their second hand, whereas the women keep their hands more or less shoulder witdth apart, and close to square with the shoulders. Why the difference, and what are the mechanics of the two techniques in terms of generating power?

Speaking of the British Championships, I know they were a while back, but would anyone be interested in a leotard thread? They certainly didn't have the comedic value of the German championships, but there were some quite unique ones.

 

[Bob]

not sure about the roundoff questions but would love a leo thread for the British!

 

[Snowfan]

I'm not sure about the round off either, but I'll throw a guess that it might have to do with the men having more muscular arms and shoulders, necessitating a wider width. I'd also be interested in the leos.

 

[youwannacranson]

MAG tend to have less shoulder and back flexibility, which makes a back handspring less optimal for them and they can get more power out of just a roundoff.

When doing a roundoff or back handspring into a twisting element, it needs to be really low and long so that you block with the floor at a really low angle. This is because your body continues to rotate after your feet land, and you will then takeoff for the twist perfectly vertical. Traveling too much on your tumbling is a waste of what could have been height.

If you takeoff past vertical you will flip too fast, and if you are trying to do anything past a 2.5 twist it will result in what happened to McKayla Maroney. On single saltos with many twists you need to flip SLOW or else you will over rotate. Leanne Wong was struggling on this with her short-lived 3.5

You can also fit more twists in if you are tilted off axis (not flipping perfectly vertically over your head, but at a slight angle), and reaching around the side like that on the roundoff accomplishes both getting them lower to the floor to get a more ideal block angle, and getting them off axis into a position optimal to start twisting from.

In WAG most roundoffs are done into a back handspring, which requires a completely different technique. Because a back handspring needs to be really low and long (same as a roundoff going directly into a big skill) to get the correct block angle off the floor, the roundoff needs to do the opposite and get a ton of rotation off the hands, landing fully upright with the feet in front of the body to then launch the back handspring super low and long.

I hope this was helpful!

 

[Snowfan]

Thank you Youwannacranson. That does make sense and it was quite helpful.

 

[Sasha]

@youwannacranson that makes a lot of sense, and thank you for the detailed explanation!

I'll pull together a thread on the British Champs leos later this week.

 

[rlayt]

Did Anna Hatch ever train an Amanar?

 

[RichardL]

Did Anna Hatch ever train an Amanar?

Did she ever land a DTY upright enough to think she could do an Amanar? Memory and a quick glance at YouTube indicates that she usually piked down...

 

[rlayt]

I thought her duty was better in 2003 before her injury so I am guessing the timeline between injury and Olympics was too tight to completely get back.

 

[Denn]

@youwannacranson Thank you for offering such a nice summary in response to the question.

Men do learn the other technique as well, but use it mostly before back handsprings, like women.

Part of the problem for taller gymnasts (which affects men more often than women) is that the floor diagonal is so short. I feel like the floor dimensions have become a real problem in gymnastics. We need to switch to a floor that is 64 by 25 instead of 40 by 40. There would still be tons of space to dance, but it would lengthen tumbling passes by 8 feet. AND there would be a nice end zone instead of a corner. It would cut down out of bounds almost completely.

It's so silly that gymnasts tumble into corners. It made sense when the hardest pass was a double full or occasional double back. But not anymore. And yet we all accept it.

 

[Aeris]

Would using the diagonals then be banned for the rectangular floor though? That would be much less aesthetically pleasing and more monotonous.

A rectangle is already less aesthetically pleasing than a square and it can also be said that doing tumbling within a confined space is valuable skill and something gymnastics is supposed to be measuring.

 

[youwannacranson]

@youwannacranson Thank you for offering such a nice summary in response to the question.

Men do learn the other technique as well, but use it mostly before back handsprings, like women.

Part of the problem for taller gymnasts (which affects men more often than women) is that the floor diagonal is so short. I feel like the floor dimensions have become a real problem in gymnastics. We need to switch to a floor that is 64 by 25 instead of 40 by 40. There would still be tons of space to dance, but it would lengthen tumbling passes by 8 feet. AND there would be a nice end zone instead of a corner. It would cut down out of bounds almost completely.

It's so silly that gymnasts tumble into corners. It made sense when the hardest pass was a double full or occasional double back. But not anymore. And yet we all accept it.

I think out of bounds will always be an issue no matter how large or small the floor is, because they're going to try to cram in as much difficulty as possible to get a leg up on their competitors

 

[Aeris]

Yes, out of bounds will always happen anyway, because if people have more space then they will simply use it to run more before tumbling.

 

[makam]

Yes, out of bounds will always happen anyway, because if people have more space then they will simply use it to run more before tumbling.

There has to be some point of diminishing returns though. Once you get up to speed, every extra step is just going to wear you out.

Though as an audience member, I really think something like that would spice up men's especially. They seem to barely take two steps--feels like slo-mo gymnastics at times.

 

[Concorde]

Did Anna Hatch ever train an Amanar?

International Gymnast had a brief article online about Hatch in 2002, and she had landed the Amanar in training and was also working on a 2 1/2 Twisting Tsukahara.

Did she ever land a DTY upright enough to think she could do an Amanar? Memory and a quick glance at YouTube indicates that she usually piked down...

Hatch piking down was likely due to trying to stick the landing rather than a need to do so.

We have also seen a few gymnasts perform Amanars that based on their Baitovas either wouldn’t look as good as they did, or be possible. Monica Rosu comes to mind as the former and Jiang Yuyuan the latter.

 

[Denn]

@Aeris @youwannacranson I said 25 feet, not 6 feet. we're not talking about a little tumbling strip. So yes, the diagonals are still possible to use, but most 3-4 element tumbling passes would easily fit down the length (and that could be at the top, in the middle, or at the bottom). We also could get shorter passes other lines.

And while I agree that the added length would lead gymnasts to attempt some longer combination passes, (a) is that really a bad thing? I feel like it would be fun and (b) the problem I am trying to solve is not only the length... It's the idea of tumbling into a corner.

As it is now, we have gymnasts barely 5 feet tall going out out of bounds on a double layout with only 4-5 steps. This is ridiculous constraint.

Training gyms also would be better — you could have 4 lines running side by side on your regular floor at all times instead of 2 lines across the diagonals that can't even go at the same time. So much more efficient — and safer, too!
@makam Absolutely agree

 

[Bob]

I just think that would be too much like tumbling.......