Post qualifications WAG musings

[ArnoldRimmer]

Jade’s body language and facial expressions during podium training did not indicate a great deal of respect for him either.

 

[Caligym]

This has me thinking this might be one of the few positive things I could say about Tom’s tenure. No way a gymnast would have felt comfortable expressing anything but blind obedience and deference to Marta.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Can you imagine her having to tolerate the individual qualification system from this quad? She’d probably threaten to smash up the gym of anyone who tried it.

 

[tempest]

Can you imagine her having to tolerate the individual qualification system from this quad? She’d probably threaten to smash up the gym of anyone who tried it.

would she though? I always thought she was all about winning medals so the +2 could give the US more medals

 

[Puffin]

Marta would definitely NOT have allowed anyone to go the Jade route. She would have wanted her +2 as non-nominative spots if possible with a preference for AA. She would have wanted to control as much as possible and would have preferred to send a --sacrificial lamb-- to Pan Ams (like Juda) than be locked into an EF:er that might not do AA.

In this the Careys were very clever as they pitched their plan before Tom had really worked out the qualifying rules (if he ever did). Despite writing restrictive terms and conditions that only a couple of gymnasts qualified for (I think Mykayla could have gone for it) - the Careys were the only ones that followed it.

 

[irichluck21]

London and Rio were peaked for months and had to hold that peak. So did the 2004 and 2008 team, and all the Worlds in between. As a result they were overtrained and faltered at the Olympics twice, after being reigning World Team Champs the year before in 2003 and 2007.

They constant competition against each other and being in peak form was devastating in terms of injuries.
2004- McCool (wrist) and Kupets (hip), not to mention Hatch’s torn ACL the year before, and Kupets torn achilles also in 2003. Yim and Tricase were always injured in 2003 and 2004. Hollie Vise’s back was mush by 2004. Memmel nearly missed alternate due to her injuries.

Then we get to 2008 and you’ve got various injuries lined up in Worley and Sloan (who managed to get healthy by Olympics. Memmel and Peszek injured in Beijing, with Sacramone also nursing an injury.

2011 lost Bross at Nationals and then at Worlds Sacramone tore her achilles and also Anna Li had the ab injury and couldn’t compete on the main team at Worlds.
2012 Sloan had to drop out of Trials due to injury, Maroney almost missed the Olympics due to her concussion at Nationals, then had issues with her toe at the Olympics.

2016 Madison Kocian was hanging on, thankfully Marta had her water down floor and vault. But Alyssa Baumann was lost before Trials, Nia Dennis was limited to bars, Nichols had the torn meniscus. Jzzie Foberg was out before nationals.

I am probably missing some but you have to take the good with the bad. Marta’s teams were overtrained and constantly peaked and as a result were consistent. However, they were overworked and overtrained and constantly injured.

I am not in Forster’s corner but gymnasts were able to go at their pace this year, nurse injuries, not show all around. Carey not doing her full difficulty, Suni allowed to recuperate from her own injury. This would never have happened with Marta at the helm. For the most part, USA was healthy this Olympic year other than nagging injuries. McCusker is just perpetually injured and I think that is just her body rejecting elite gymnastics.

You can’t have the overall dominant gymnastics performances of USA under Marta Karolyi, Romania under Belu, and the Soviet dominance for decades without the overtraining, injuries, and abuse. It is clear from those that have gone through these regimes that culture was toxic and abusive and often physically abusive. Marta was horrible, but I can’t imagine the conditions and pressure the Soviets faced as it was a revolving door and if you made mistakes you were done with forever.

I don’t care for Forster but he was at least very supportive of athlete decisions and allowing for athlete’s to go at their pace this year. As a result of this we don’t see the dominating performance of the Americans because they aren’t consistent as they would have been forced to in the past. As a result, they make multiple errors and are passed by a solid, clean, and consistent Russian team.

Can’t really have both ways.

 

[irichluck21]

Marta would have ensured that the +1 World Cup would NOT be eligible to change their mind later and try for the main team in writing and/or she would have manipulated them both into deciding not to go the individual route. Then if Jade wasn’t up to par come 2020 (2021) she would have been dropped like a sac of potatoes.

 

[Sparklesmom]

I think that what is different now is that they are not literally more afraid of their coordinator than the competition. Heck, Ive seen that sort of mentality at all levels. Fear is a powerful motivator and Marta ruled with an iron fist. Just listening to the women talk about her it is clear that they were terrified of her. And in the face of that, the olympics itself is NOTHING compared to the pressure and fear she wielded.

 

[JaJa]

u can’t have the overall dominant gymnastics performances of USA under Marta Karolyi, Romania under Belu, and the Soviet dominance for decades without the overtraining, injuries, and abuse.

This may be true. I think it is. But it is so problematic.

 

[irichluck21]

Everything you said is true.

But they also respected Marta, loved her, and wanted to win for her.

I don’t know that they feared Marta outright s much as they feared disappointing her.

Marta was very much like a grandmother with maternal power, you feared her, respected her, but loved her and would do anything for her.

Plus, who doesn’t want to win ,and when the team is constantly winning and you are part of that team, it becomes part of the job.

 

[cats]

This years team isn’t so hopelessly overtrained. But it certainly isn’t healthy - McCallum had surgery, Lee has both ankle and Achilles stuff, Carey had an ankle issue, Skinner has her foot thing, even Biles is having ankle trouble to go along with those long standing broken toes. Hurd, McCusker, Greaves were all knocked out of contention due to injuries, and while Hernandez wasn’t in contention, she also got hurt. McClain wasn’t physically hurt but I would say it’s fair to say that her coaching situation made her unhealthy enough to take her out of the process.

These injuries were managed orders of magnitude better than they were in the past, but it has been rough going for everyone.

 

[irichluck21]

I agree. The sport is very much constant injuries as we have seen it is not just the US that has suffered them.
But yes, gymnasts were left to make decisions on how to compete and what to compete without beign penalized.

I don’t think Marta would have allowed McCusker to do only one event at Olympic Trials.

 

[Sparklesmom]

respected, well maybe. Loved- I laughed at that one. One of my children had a coach who I would have told you they loved. But the reality was they feared them. Like REALLY feared them. They never gave me any indication that they were living in terror of this person, but yeah they were. This person reminds me a great deal of Marta. Well apparently they also like throwing children into walls which I have not heard Marta did, but still quite similar personality and behaviors. Maybe I am just projecting but I doubt people really LOVED Marta. I think Skinner probably summarized it best when she said “this was what you had to do if you wanted to go to the Olympics so you just did it”.

 

[rlayt]

Well apparently they also like throwing children into walls which I have not heard Marta did

Either she or Bela did in Romania if you believe some of the stories.

 

[irichluck21]

I am just going by what gymnasts have said before, but you could def. be correct.
I do think some who were favored did actually love Marta. Raisman for one.

 

[Sparklesmom]

Oh I believe it. I had a coach of that era tell me that they used to lock the girls in dark closets for a few days as punishment. I am sure that is the least of what they used to do to the gymnasts. IMHO coaches of that era and mindset do not see these women as humans, only as objects that when broken are no different than a cup or plate which can be tossed to the side when broken. There are many more in the cabinet to use.

 

[Sparklesmom]

maybe. They all choose their stars. Im sure it felt great to be chosen.

 

[Hatsumomo]

I always found it interesting, for all her outspokenness, Raisman was always careful to not malign Martha, no matter what her teammates said about the woman.

 

[kimbee]

I’ve always thought Raisman could have something along the lines of Stockholm Syndrome when it came to Martha.

 

[Kittentoes]

My HS English teacher was incredibly abusive. I know that sounds stupid, but it’s true. And she’d have one kid in class who was always punished, and one who was always golden. All the rest saw what examples were before them, and trembled, scrambling to be golden too. Most of the middling folk have now forgotten their tears ( yes, there was humiliated sobbing in class) through dedicated binge drinking in college. This is the best system for abuse. You can cause suicidal ideation, eating disorders, and lifetime scars, and never get in trouble. I would imagine coaches can do the same.