Post qualifications WAG musings

[ArnoldRimmer]

It will be interesting to see if people’s feelings about that change should the US lose tomorrow.

eta- not you specifically, just the general online consensus seemed to be that it was wrong for Jade to attempt something that would lose the US a spot. However that was in the context of a general assumption that the US would win easily.

 

[Puffin]

I think that the US disadvantages itself by having 5 days of very intensive competition over a 4 week period so the team seems to peak for that, I guess that the tv money is hard to turn down

There are things they could do

• hold nationals earlier or later
• consider whether both national AND trials need to be 2 day competitions - it seems to hark back to the era of compulsories and optionals when 2 days were needed but do they really need 4 days of full AA in a 2 week period?
• perhaps consider the format - why not AA and EFs instead? - especially at nationals.

 

[PeakePups]

I’m also interested in if the thoughts around Jade not being on the main team will change if USA loses tomorrow.

I was of the opinion that the US had the golf locked up so it didn’t make sense to put Jade on the team and take 5 girls instead of 6. Hindsight is 20/20 but now it kinda seems like if Jade was part of the highest scoring team we should have considered that. Again it’s even more complicated by the fact that Jade didn’t really compete to her full potential at nationals or trials.

 

[MaryClare]

Why hold nationals and trials in an Olympic year. Just hold trials

 

[RAFIKI]

This is my first year on twitter and the meltdown is fascinating. I know there was a lot of Forster hate before this but my word. Given the ages I saw on a recent twitter poll, there are a lot of fans that have only known USA dominance and they just can’t handle being second. It is good for the sport for finals to be competitive and frankly it is good for fans to learn some humility and not expect everything to be easy for “their” team. NB the latter is directed at the children on the gymternet, no one here. Anyway I fully expect USA to perform better and win. I also suspect Russia will carry at least one major error.

I think the world cup event series was exciting and it’s a real shame we didn’t get to see the AA series play out. I did enjoy all team members getting to do AA but frankly I don’t see why London/Rio couldn’t have been 5-5-4. The competition wouldn’t be that much longer. I wonder what could be done to give the event process some more flexibility so gymnastics like Becky and Sanne would be able to go that route without jeopardising team qualification. Would a shorter series post 2019 worlds have worked? (in a non-pandemic world obviously). Is it unfair for gymnasts to help qualify their team and then qualify via a different route? Genuinely don’t know and I’m still incredibly sad and bitter about Becky so I’m biased.

 

[RedBirdie]

My guess is they hold nationals and Trials because of money and control. USAG manages nationals, but has to share Trials with the USOPC.

Plus, revenue from two national-level events instead of just 1.

 

[Jack]

Are people forgetting how well peaked the London and Rio teams were? I don’t think it’s the competition schedule.

 

[Puffin]

I think that the USAG and Tom need to realise that they won’t have Simone as a “get of jail free” card for much longer. They are so used to the several point cushion that Simone usually brings that they don’t know how to react when she makes big errors and the rest of the team look shaky as well.

Tom needs to get a grip and fast - but the guy seems to learn nothing from experience. After the fiasco at Junior worlds and the Kara ring leap debacle you would think that the US would stop throwing away marks on sloppy dance elements and slow combinations yet it seems to come as a shock yet again

I still expect USA to win as I cannot see the Russians hitting so well for 2 competitions in a row

 

[RedBirdie]

Tom clearly is not cut out to be NTC. That role needs to be someone who is a great manager: managing the NT staff and directing them out to gyms, managing the elite schedule, managing the selection process for each event, etc. Part of being a great manager is being a great communicator and sees their role to help the people below them maximize their potential.

One of the big problems, as I see it, is that elite coaches don’t want to be managed, and they really don’t want someone in the NTC role who isn’t an elite coach. There are a bunch of other problems, but that’s near the top.

 

[lovegymnasts]

After the fiasco at Junior worlds

What happened?

 

[JaJa]

I still expect USA to win as I cannot see the Russians hitting so well for 2 competitions in a row

I do think USA will win TFs. And lots of hardware in EFs. But I also am pretty sure this will be it for Simone. And that will be a game changer for USAG. Not in a good way. Tom’s usefulness, to the extent he really ever had any, has run out.

 

[JJS_5056]

Sorry, the format of the forum (lack of pagination) makes it difficult to catch every post, so apologies if this has been mentioned, but IMO, the narrative of the E Panel “doing their jobs” vs. “not doing their jobs” is misguided when they’re working in a system that differentiates difficulty on a .10 basis (up to 1.0), going as fare as to award .10 more for Round-Off (B) on BB vs. Cartwheel (A), but has forced assessment of minor, medium, and major errors into -.10, .-30, and -.50.

It’s absurd the 4 U.S. athletes (team) essentially tied on Execution on FX. I watched very different routines from McCallum, Lee, Chiles, and Biles… yet, 7.6 E Scores (give or take). It’s been an issue since the days of Komova and has only gotten worse. Forcing the slightest mistake (legs apart on landing, slight movement, grip adjustment) to -.10 with visible errors (clear hop, arm waiver on beam, leg separation in a salto) creates unnecessary bunching, and .20 jumps (-.10 > -.30 > -.50) are ridiculous when that’s the difference between A and C DV.

My dream would be a return to the .05 > -.30 scale (.05 increments) of 97-00 (with -.50, -.80 as severe penalties thereafter), but could even settle for -.05, .10, -.20, -.30, -.50, -.80.

 

[Puffin]

Puffin:

After the fiasco at Junior worlds

What happened?

It was when the Russians beat the US at Junior worlds he said something along the lines of not realising that dance elements would be judged strictly and arguing that the US had better tumblers. He didn’t really understand the rules for that competition. I think I am right that the D scores were capped at certain elements - the US were competing more difficulty than necessary (and being deducted) as well as being penalized for sloppy spins and leaps

 

[JJS_5056]

Also, re: format of the competition, I definitely would not advocate removing per-country limits, but for all the work done destroying the team event, you’d think AA and EF might’ve benefit along the way? These ideas were thrown out throughout this thread, but I’ve always favored:

Team Qualification: 6-6-4 (allows all members a chance to compete every event, but it isn’t required, thus allowing specialists)
Team Final: 6-4-4 (requires more depth and strategy than 6-3-3 and keeps the scoring of Quals consistent with Finals)
All-Around: Top 32, 3/country or Top 24, 2/country + 8 wildcards (highest scoring athletes; 1/country)
Event Finals: Top 9, 2/country + 3 wildcards (highest scoring athletes; 1/country)

^ I’d even be okay with just 32 AA (3/country) and EF staying the same. Yes, we miss out on some great gymnasts in EF, but it doesn’t bother me that CHN didn’t sweep the UB medals in the 1997-2000 days when they had compulsory routines, or ROM on BB/FX…

For Olympic qualification, I’d much rather see multiple athletes from non-contending teams vs. full set of 12 teams, when 4 get eliminated the first day:

• Teams 1-8 from Worlds (Year 3) qualify a full team (6)
• Teams 9-12 qualify 3 gymnasts
• Teams 13-16 qualify 2 gymnasts
• Teams 17-20 qualify 1 gymnast
• AA (Q): Top 10 (country NYQ)
• Nominative spots (up to 3/country) given through Worlds AA/EF, World Cup, etc.

 

[KristyJ]

@JJS_5056 - Agree with this 1000% - “My dream would be a return to the .05 > -.30 scale (.05 increments) of 97-00 (with -.50, -.80 as severe penalties thereafter), but could even settle for -.05, .10, -.20, -.30, -.50, -.80.”
They removed all of the nuance out of judging but still want the judges to differentiate the routines. In reality there are some errors that really should be between .1 and .3.

 

[Doug1233]

I’m struggling with Urazova’s beam E Score. 8.2?

I had 8.8.

Where are the deductions?

I had most other gymnasts pretty in line (I’m judging RUS now) and if anything, I was a little stricter than the FIG.

But this one I don’t get.

ETA: Melnikova had an 8.233 E and I gave 8.2. I’m not out of line.

 

[KristyJ]

I’m at 8.9 on a relatively poor quality view of the routine because I didn’t want to dig through NBC to find it right now.

 

[Doug1233]

Melnikova went right after and got the same E. I don’t get it.

 

[KristyJ]

There are multiple things about the beam judging that I don’t fully get at this point, but after pulling a most-of-the-nighter to watch the competition initially I haven’t had the drive to go back and verify my impressions yet. I still feel jet-lagged.

I want to go back over Sanne’s routine as well, since I think I watched about 80% of it but that 80% left me with an odd impression of the score.

Am I the only one who did double-takes at beam scores much of the night?

 

[ucrgirl]

I have a feeling post Olympics the athletes are going to come out against Forster.
They have already voiced concerns. Skinner is DONE so we know she will speak her mind. Biles has no issue speaking out.
All the athletes heading to NCAA.

I’ve been expecting this too.