How Do You Solve A Problem Like Tom Forster?

[ArnoldRimmer]

COVID and Simone withdrawing already provide plausible deniability for a Tokyo flop. USA WAG still managing 2 golds, silvers, and bronzes apiece with everybody medaling, and 2/3 of the squad medaling individually, should stave off any hard questions from execs or USOPC.

Now, USA might have gotten there the hard way, and Tom may have been vindicated largely on circumstance, which is maddening. Suni barely wins AA gold. Simone and Jade’s mega-flukes morphed vault finals into one where somebody who got two-per’d becomes their only hope. Suni and Simone walk away with EF medals from finals that nobody else from USA could have won, and if somebody else did medal on bars or beam, all they’d do is push the second American off the podium. And Jade keeps Simone’s floor gold warm in a fashion none of the remaining team could have done, and she got to Tokyo herself.

But at the end of the day, the medal haul is what it is. For all the talk of “fire Tom Forster during/after the Games,” Tokyo results won’t be what get him, if anything does.

I think you may be right here. If he does go, it’ll be because of what happened behind the scenes, in particular if the rumours about him pressuring Simone into attempting TFs are true. The medal haul itself is at least spinnable. It’s like Russia in 2012: anyone who knows anything about the sport realises how badly wrong the team competition went and questions how a talent pool that good could be so wasted, but meanwhile they still won more medals than anyone else and that provides a convincing explanation to the casual observer.

They also probably won’t want him out with worlds just round the corner. The obvious time to get rid would be in the off season, if that’s what they want. The US have a decade long AA streak to protect. They’d better hope Kayla can peak twice.

 

[makam]

At a bare minimum, they need to hire a media consultant or spokesperson. Let Tom make whatever “decisions” he makes but have someone else deliver the verdict–someone who can generally keep his/her foot out of their mouth.

 

[ucrgirl]

Maybe that person should serve on the selection committee so they can speak with some authority.

 

[MaryClare]

Who would have the required media and marketing skills plus gymnastics knowledge? Tasha Schwikert? Jennifer Sey?

 

[Vanessa_Steck]

Who would have the required media and marketing skills plus gymnastics knowledge? Tasha Schwikert? Jennifer Sey?

Jennifer Sey likes to compare having kids wear masks to child sexual abuse, so she may not be the best choice for a position of authority.

 

[makam]

Rachel Denhollander is very well spoken, but she wouldn’t touch the shit show with a ten foot pole.

 

[MRR]

I can’t see where the axe falls on Tom prior to Paris. Simone’s air sense going AWOL in Tokyo was a one in a million scenario, but it happened, and the results flattered Tom possibly more than if she had won five golds.

The team final is easy to write off as an unwinnable event, with the U.S. forced to lose its star early in a competition saddled with a 13.766. Chiles, Lee, McCallum were lauded for their quick adjustments and proved a silver, never mind a bid for gold until floor, was possible without Simone. It’s shocking Tom didn’t talk to the press after, because he could’ve spun this so fast as the ultimate rationale for rank order, with the 2nd-4th AAers accounting for 11 of the 12 routines.

Individually, Suni keeps the AA gold in the American’s hands for an unprecedented 5th Olympics. Skinner brings home a vault medal when everyone said she shouldn’t have traveled and was a waste of a spot after prelims. Carey comes back the next day winning floor, and suddenly the redundant +2 each contribute something the other didn’t. Lee nets the same result McCusker could have provided on bars, excepting silver on a perfect night, and Biles has her redemption arc on beam. This is just the third Olympics where four separate gymnasts earn individual medals, and Chiles and McCallum contributing AA in TF means everyone was vital toward the medal haul.

Someone remarked how Biles could easily tweet Forster out of a job. Maybe she should, but the situation is delicate. First off, the grass isn’t always greener with a new NTC, and I doubt anyone here wants Dan Baker as a replacement. Given the transition from devo to NTC that Tom and Valeri underwent, that is the likely choice. Furthermore, Simone has younger teammates within WCC whom she doesn’t want to jeopardize future opportunities for, and she hasn’t ruled out a run at Paris herself. Political fallout or just further upheaval may be seen as too much hassle for what its worth.

Now I still find Tom incompetent, unsavvy, and useless as the next person. There’s no need for an NTC who lets USAG judges decide teams and refuses to offer recommendations for skills or heed international judges’ advice. But it’s going to take much more than this Olympics to kick him to the curb, with or without Simone. The U.S. just garnered a medal on every single event, a feat only previously achieved in Rio, and LA during the boycott.

 

[makam]

Lots of super valid points. That said, they can keep him and hire him an assistant who is in charge of communication. I don’t know who this mythical person is, but a savvy person who can pretend tom is still running things but really be the actual brains has to exist…well, it would be nice for them to exist.

 

[cats]

USAG already has a PR department, and a VP for the women’s program. Why Tom should do any public speaking at all is beyond me. That’s not even a slam on him - I just don’t see why the HPD should have to unless they happen to be skilled in that area.

 

[MaryClare]

I guess it’s because Tom has assumed that role on a few occasions, but your right, no one expected Marta to handle media

 

[gymskatefan]

People expected Tom to talk because he bandwagoned off Simone’s success and used Simone as his reason for total lack of strategy and concern all quad. Then the minute she was having trouble, he totally abandoned her, with his revisionist history just continuing to praise the other members of the team he had ignored all along.

If he had done no media all along like Marta until AFTER the competition, people wouldn’t have expected him to say anything. But to only jump on Simone’s coattails and take credit for her success, then abandon her the minute things looked bad for him, makes him nothing less than a pathetic coward.

 

[Doug1233]

Chiles, Lee, McCallum were lauded for their quick adjustments and proved a silver, never mind a bid for gold until floor, was possible without Simone.

A gold was possible without Simone. Remember Tom saying, prior to leaving for Tokyo, that the USA C Team would still beat Russia. He can’t now spin it that a Simone-less A Team never had a shot at gold.

Simply put - they just didn’t hit, and/or they performed skills they shouldn’t have performed (if only they had envisaged the E Score hammering that was coming their way).

USA lost by 3.438.

Jordan lost 1.866 on floor compared to her Prelims routine. That leaves 1.572.

Grace lost 0.233 on vault, and 0.4 on bars compared to her Prelims routines. That leaves 0.939.

Suni lost 0.066 on beam compared to her Prelims routine, and 0.266 on floor compared to her AA routine. That leaves 0.607.

And this is only recycling scores that they already got in Tokyo.

You can’t tell me that the US couldn’t have made up 6 tenths with smarter better constructed routines. This hypothetical includes counting Jordan’s prelims floor with her jank wolf turn, switch full and gogean attempts; you could probably make 6 tenths up all in that one routine alone with better element choices.

The US could have beaten Russia without Simone. But they didn’t hit their best routines in TF and their routines were not smartly constructed to begin with. The first, you probably can’t really blame Tom for, given the circumstances. The latter, you absolutely can.

 

[MaryClare]

The private Facebook posts justifying the selection and defending the team’s performance were just…I don’t have words. Like just IMAGINE Marta or Valeri doing that!

 

[cats]

You can also give back almost .9 by taking Simone totally out and putting Suni in on vault. A crashed 1.5 is a lot to overcome.

I think a team built to beat that specific Russian performance could have been constructed, but they would’ve needed four athletes, and they would have needed to be at their best at the Olympics. That was the biggest fail for me - you can’t have a team of four and have only one athlete doing her best gymnastics and expect to win.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

If you add up the best scores from Lee, McCallum and Chiles across the whole Games, they’re thousandths behind the ROC TF total. Nothing in it. Meaning smarter routine construction could’ve given a Simoneless US gold. I think the more interesting question is whether they could’ve got past a Russian team who also hit 12 for 12.

 

[MaryClare]

What is the Russian 12 score total from the best routines though?

 

[MRR]

You’re using Lee’s prelims score for FX, so her AA routine in relation to TF leaves the U.S. short 0.84. It’s only thanks to a two-fall Russia that the margin isn’t 1-2 points or greater.

Yes, a hypothetical exists where Chiles lands her third pass like Trials and sticks a full-in, McCallum nails beam and floor, or Listunova caps a 0-3 Russian beam rotation a la Glasgow and the standings flip. But it’s presumptive to say routine construction alone could’ve eaten a near full-point deficit when McCallum and Lee’s routines are largely tailored to the COP, and Chiles is hopeless with body shape outside straddle elements. The Landis already stripped her down to 3 counting dance on BB/FX (she doesn’t do a switch full), and you wouldn’t have her add any rings or turns.

Tom should never have thought a few extra tenths wouldn’t matter. But the U.S. had a double whammy in the first rotation: Biles pulling out, and the team absorbing a 13.766 for what was supposed to be its most bankable, juggernaut score of the entire TF. You can find ways to get the U.S. up with Russia, whether it’s lights out routines, an additional fall on their end, or Lee vaulting for Biles in advance of the competition, but I don’t see routine construction alone cutting it. Suni taking out the double back didn’t bring up her score much in the AA, though nixing the double L would’ve helped.

 

[Doug1233]

What is the Russian 12 score total from the best routines though?

This hypothetical exercise isn’t to compare the best scoring US and ROC teams.

It’s to ask “could the USA have won gold without Simone?”.

Two very different questions. You don’t need to add back all the Russian errors to work out scenario two.

 

[Doug1233]

Tom should never have thought a few extra tenths wouldn’t matter.

That’s fine. But many people are using this to justify putting Skinner in the team instead of Grace.

 

[irichluck21]

Tom was technically right, a few tenths separating McCallum and Skinner wouldn’t matter. Even if you replaced McCallum with Skinner, the team still comes up way short. Also who is to say what Skinner’s scores on bars or beam would have looked like, having to now compete in team finals.
Let’s not forget that Skinner went 7.1 in execution for a hit routine in qualifications. Then going after Listunova’s smooth set, her execution would have been even more glaring.