Controversies in Gymnastics

[rlayt]

We should have a thread on controversies if we haven’t had one covering the historical controversies.

-2000 vault IN AA

• I’ve read Nadia should have had gold in 1980.
• Strug’s 1996 vault that didn’t need to happen
• Whether Holly Vise was over-time to get a number and remount bars in 2003
• Paul Hamm’s gold in AA

I’m sure i’ve forgotten most of them.

 

[MRR]

Lavinia Agache competing as Ecaterina Szabo.

 

[tempest]

We should have a thread on controversies if we haven’t had one covering the historical controversies.

-2000 vault IN AA

• I’ve read Nadia should have had gold in 1980.
• Strug’s 1996 vault that didn’t need to happen
• Whether Holly Vise was over-time to get a number and remount bars in 2003
• Paul Hamm’s gold in AA

I’m sure i’ve forgotten most of them.

Nadia fell so she made it easy for her to win the silver but I'm not sure Strug's VT is controversial... yes the US had won without Strug vaulting BUT no one knew that at the time

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The Kerri thing is all hindsight. When she did her 2nd vault, Russia had 3 scores yet to come and needed just over a 9.812 average from them to win. Romania and the US had both racked up the 9.8s, so it wasn't something that could be ruled out.

I agree it's become more of a controversy now, but I think that's people reacting to the glorification of her injuring herself and going too far the other way. Kerri was actually choosing between her Olympic gold and her ankle at that point.

 

[Passion]

Russia and Romania could have been five full points behind USA and Strug still would have vaulted again, because she desperately wanted to make the AA final after missing it in '92. She wrote about how much she wanted to make the AA final in her book.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Lavinia Agache competing as Ecaterina Szabo.

I’ve never heard this one! What’s the story?

 

[irichluck21]

The 1988 WAG bronze medal between East Germany and USA, with Ellen Berger of GDR (head of women's technical committee- I think?) deducting .5 from the USA team total after compulsories due to alternate Rhonda Fahen staying up on the podium after removing the board.

1996 and 1997 Amanar being subbed in for Marinescu.

1992 Gutsu being subbed in for LIIIIIIIIIITTTLE Roza Galieva.

Age controversies of Daniela Silivas, Gina Gogean, Cheng Fei, Yang Yun, He Kexin.

IIRC, there was a judge at one of the Olympics that was not watching the routines she was judging ad watching her home country. I can't remember who.

The 2000 Australian vault rotation with so many gymnasts doing vaults they were not capable of doing (layout cuervo).

Bela's and Marta's team selections and lack of "Criteria".

The 2005 Worlds AA "tie" between Memmel and Liukin.

Ponor vs Iordache for the 2016 ROU Olympic spot.

 

[irichluck21]

I’ve never heard this one! What’s the story?

 

[MaryClare]

He Kexin age and why the US never pursued it

 

[tempest]

1996 and 1997 Amanar being subbed in for Marinescu.

1992 Gutsu being subbed in for LIIIIIIIIIITTTLE Roza Galieva.


IIRC, there was a judge at one of the Olympics that was not watching the routines she was judging ad watching her home country. I can't remember who.

I'm pretty sure I read here that substitutions were allowed pre 96, I think there were lots of soviet swaps at the 91 worlds for example. Post 96, I think they changed the rules that the federation could choose anyone who qualified(I think that's correct)


and I believe that was Tourischeva who was watching the Ukrainians on their events instead of judging hers(I think she was on beam)

 

[irichluck21]

He Kexin age and why the US never pursued it

I think because there was no evidence to bring up as China had scrubbed their internet records.
But in 2007 she was listed as 1994 born and therefore not eligible for 2008.
I remember on WWGYM she was being discussed as a potential favorite for London and then we were In shock when she was named to the Olympic team and her birth year was now 1992.

Plus it didn't help that Bela was being a blundering idiot about it saying the Chinese were there with their "milk teeth" (baby teeth). IIRC that was the last Olympics they had Bela doing interviews. Maybe I am wrong but I feel like that was around the time they started to keep him away from the cameras.

 

[tempest]

He probably said things like that a lot but I thought Bela was referring to Kim Gwang-suk in 91 when he talked about the milk teeth

 

[irichluck21]

You are probably right about that!
I thought he said something about the Chinese teeth. He definitely was accusing about half the team of being underage. Either way he was a bumbling idiot.

Here is the NBC article where they gave evidence of He Kexin being underage. Naturally all of the evidence online he gave, the links were removed, or the articles were changed.

Paperwork gaffe caused gymnast age questions

China’s deputy sports minister has attributed the confusion about the age of one of its gold medalist gymnasts to a paperwork mistake during a team transfer.

www.nbcnews.com

Another one by NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/27gymnasts.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

IIRC the US pressed it but FIG shot it down immediately.

 

[irichluck21]

The American Cup results (they don't call it Scam Cup for nothing!) probably deserves its own thread.

Shannon mMiller's bars compulsory score from the 1994 Team Worlds in Dortmund. Then her subsequent leaving the team behind after compulsories.

 

[tempest]

Miller leaving in 94 is really interesting... Nunno definitively said that he made it clear to USAG that Shannon would only do Compulsories and USAG thought that since Shannon was already there, she would still compete but IIRC Shannon was really injured(or burnt out)
Now why she couldn't stay and at least support her team? I don't know

 

[irichluck21]

Yeah I understood it as Shannon just doing compulsories. It was understandable waning to rest because she competed a lot that year, was a bit injured and probably exhausted. I believe USAG wanted Shannon to do optional bars and beam but Steve said no. I think that is not the controversy per say, but rather that she left the team and didn't stay to support and cheer on the team or be available in case of injury. Given the young team at the time, having Shannon there would have been good for those younger athletes. She ended up with a silver team medal that she didn't stay for.

 

[Seyonne]

IIRC, there was a judge at one of the Olympics that was not watching the routines she was judging ad watching her home country. I can't remember who.

I think that was Ludmilla Turischeva

 

[irichluck21]

@Seyonne Thank you! I wasn't sure. Was it in Atlanta?

 

[arabiandoublefront]

The Kerri thing is all hindsight. When she did her 2nd vault, Russia had 3 scores yet to come and needed just over a 9.812 average from them to win. Romania and the US had both racked up the 9.8s, so it wasn't something that could be ruled out.

I agree it's become more of a controversy now, but I think that's people reacting to the glorification of her injuring herself and going too far the other way. Kerri was actually choosing between her Olympic gold and her ankle at that point.

I hate that people these days act like Kerri wasn't 18 and a grown adult who could make her own decisions at the time. Didn't she also factor in qualifying for the all-around?

 

[cftmoonlight79]

I hate that people these days act like Kerri wasn't 18 and a grown adult who could make her own decisions at the time. Didn't she also factor in qualifying for the all-around?

Wouldn't qualifications have already been done by then, or was it done differently then?