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There hasn’t always been lack of depth. If you look at the size of senior national teams in Olympic years, they have really decreased.

2004
Beth Tweddle
Nicola Willis
Katy Lennon
Vanessa Hobbs
Lizzie Line
Cherelle Fennell
Amy Dodsley
Rebecca Owen
Melanie Roberts
Ashtone Johnston
Carol Galashan
Helen Galashan
Rebecca Mason
Kimberley Lyons
Samantha Bayley
Rachel Collinson

2008:

Beth Tweddle
Imogen Cairns
Hannah Whelan
Becky Downie
Becky Wing
Marissa King
Laura Jones
Hannah Clowes
Kayleigh Cook
Rhian Pugh
Aisling Williams
Melanie Roberts
Lynette Lisle
Amy Fossheim

2012:
Beth Tweddle
Hannah Whelan
Jennifer Pinches
Rebecca Tunney
Imogen Cairns
Danusia Francis
Becky Downie
Ruby Harrold
Kelly Simm
Niamh Rippin
Jocelyn Hunt
Laura Mitchell

2016:
Becky Downie
Ellie Downie
Claudia Fragapane
Amy Tinkler
Ruby Harrold
Rebecca Tunney
Georgia Mae Fenton
Kelly Sim
Abi Solari
Gabrielle Jupp
Tyesha Mattis
Catherine Lyons
Teal Grindle

2021:
Jessica Gadirova
Jennifer Gadirova
Amelie Morgan
Alice Kinsella
Becky Downie
Ellie Downie
Georgia Mae Fenton
Ondine Achampong
Phoebe Jacubczyk
Kelly Sim
Claudia Fragapane
Emily Thomas

Do we really think there are going to be those kind of numbers by this time next year?
 
I’m not sure what you think is different in Europe? There’s junior euros and eyof. Beyond that it’s just invitationals, and even pre pandemic, there are nothing like the number of junior dual/tri meets there used to be.
 
I was just offering an explanation why you don’t really see 11-year old elites in America. I don’t know why European countries still do it. I mean, we’ve seen how Russia burns through their juniors who end up fizzling out at seniors.
 
No, that isn’t my point.

My point is that in the UK, if you want to make the national team in the future, you need to pass the elite grade (roughly L9 level skills) “in age”, which means in the year you turn 11.

If you fail, or if you simply aren’t ready, you can pass at an older age, but you will never be considered for developmental squads. Even if you only passed a year late at the age of 12! This has been the case for a long time. The 2003 elite grade was 1. Becky Downie, 2. Laura Jones 3. Becky Wing. All 3 were named to the 2008 Olympic team.

Potentially there is a huge amount of talented gymnasts who could potentially be world class by the age of 16, but are not being developed or motivated at all. Some leave WAG for other disciplines, those that stay almost never manage to make the national team, therefore it is that cohort of gymnasts that the England squad is made up from, as you cannot be on both teams.
 
In a lot of those examples there’s been a very large gap between those in contention for teams and those not: I don’t think the presence of athletes like eg Lisle and Fossheim in 08 is indicative of much. But no, I don’t think we’ll see numbers anywhere near that for 2024. There’s been an obvious shrinkage. Covid is probably some of that, I don’t know whether it’s all.
 
New seniors I think will make the squad:
Ruby Evan (selected for the Cottbus World Cup)
Evie Flage-Donovan (junior euros team and trains at Clwb Cymru Caerdydd with Poppy and Ruby)
Sophie O’Flaherty (trains at Aylesbury and was at a squad training)
Grace Davies (was on the junior euros)

I don’t know much about them, but we’ll have to see how they compete as a senior - especially the against the top GB/English/Welsh squad girls
 
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you couldn’t have a GB reserve squad instead of England squad because GB includes gymnasts from Scotland, NI And Wales. A GB reserve squad would have to include gymnasts from there as well. The top England squad gymnasts are pretty much always at Gb squad as guests regardless. Also quite a few England gymnasts haven’t passed compulsory at all, previously wouldn’t be included in Gb squad until they have competed at the British through Challenge cup. From this year it’s much easier to qualify for the British as a challenge gymnast.
 
image


Looks like I was right with Sophie
 
Ruby Evans has had a very good couple of days in Cottbus, qualifying for the vault, beam and floor finals, scores:

VT: 13.900/12.500 Av. 13.200
UB: 12.300
BB: 12.833
FX: 13.500 (5.4D)

Not an AA competition, but 52.533 using the first vault. That floor especially could put her in contention for Euros maybe.

Poppy Stickler is also into the floor final with 13.066 there, but it looks like she fell on beam and bars. Like Evans, she also looks to have upgraded to a DTY on vault, but it only got 8.466E for a score of 13.366.

English Championships tomorrow. All the biggest names are on the startlist for WAG, Max Whitlock, Jake Jarman, Courtney Tulloch for MAG.
 
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Seems like a lot of falls so far at English Championships. Just a 12.1 for Becky on bars. Looks like GMF and Jess Gadirova have come off as well. Ondine hit though.
 
Courtney Tulloch has just come up with a score of 4.3 on floor with short routine deductions. Hope whatever it is isn’t serious.
 
English Championships WAG AA:

Ondine Achampong 53.85
Ruby Stacey 52.55
Emily Todd 50.65

VT Average:

Emily Roper 13.075
Veronika Kritski 12.7
Ellie Belbin 12.6

UB:

Achampong 13.95
Stacey 13.6
Lucy Lewis 13.35

BB:

Alice Kinsella 13.65
Georgia-Mae Fenton 12.9
Stacey 12.8
Achampong 12.8

FX:

Kinsella 13.25
Achampong 13.25
Shanna-Kae Grant 12.9

Don’t know if they are actually breaking ties, but if they are Ruby Stacey is ahead on beam. The floor tie is a tie anyway.

Georgia-Mae Fenton looks to have fallen on bars and floor to finish 4th AA (50.0). Alice Kinsella didn’t do bars, which is weird unless she’s having shoulder trouble or something. Jessica Gadirova only did bars (12.55), Jennifer only beam (10.4). Becky Downie only the 12.1 on bars.
 
I think the men have finished. Big pommels score for Max Whitlock, he was also second on P-bars with a 13.95. Jarman didn’t do AA.

AA:

Joshua Nathan 82.65
Jamie Lewis 82.25
Adam Tobin 80.45

FX: Jamie Lewis, Luke Whitehouse 13.95
PH: Max Whitlock 15.35
SR: Jamie Lewis 14.05
VT: Jake Jarman 14.75
PB: Luke Whitehouse 14.05
HB: Joshua Nathan 13.8

Pavel Karnejenko scored 14.45 on rings and 80.45 AA as a guest.
 
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