Antwerp draw

[IratePanda]

Why did you use the gymnasts’ last names in the Worlds line-ups and first names in the Asian Games line-ups?

 

[GymBeauty]

The names for the Worlds team are much longer, I wanted to save space and have it look nicer.

 

[IratePanda]

Not a good reason. Chinese names are written Last Name First Name. For example, Ou Yushan’s last name is Ou, and her first name is Yushan. If you’re going to shorten the names for any reason, use the last name only.

Furthermore, I hardly think that Reddit is a reliable source of information on Chinese gymnastics.

 

[GymBeauty]

First and last names (or nicknames) are used interchangeably for all gymnasts in conversation.

 

[IratePanda]

Not with Chinese gymnasts, no. In China, only close family members or friends address one another using first names only (or nicknames). In most other situations, they’d use the full name, or the last name with an honorific or title like Miss, Mister, Doctor, Coach, etc.

 

[GymBeauty]

Great for them, this is an online message board, not a Chinese family gathering.

 

[MaryClare]

Not with Chinese gymnasts, no. In China, only close family members or friends address one another using first names only (or nicknames). In most other situations, they’d use the full name, or the last name with an honorific or title like Miss, Mister, Doctor, Coach, etc.

That’s interesting. Tbh, I’ve always used the full name for Chinese gymnasts because I’m never sure which is the given name and which is the family name. especially with gymnasts I’m not familiar with.

Incidentally, when I’m communicating in English, I will often use nicknames to refer to Russian gymnasts. But in Russian I’d never dream of referring to Angelina Melnikova as Gelya!

 

[MaryClare]

A reminder to everyone not to feed the troll.

Not even crispy wonton. No bubble chai. And definitely not dim sum from that fabulous basement cafe in Chinatown where you’re the only non Chinese patron and there’s only 3 items on the entire menu.

 

[GymBeauty]

You are the one who is trolling. Please stop it.

 

[Hatsumomo]

With China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Cambodia, and Vietnam, it’s last name first and go by their last name by default. Japan especially because being on first name basis with somebody means you have a very close relationship with them (e.g., parents, child, or spouse). Even your peers would call you by your last name. I recall Murakami had specifically asked the foreign correspondents in Tokyo to go by her last name.

Interestingly, when I did a quick double-check, apparently a few European countries/cultures also go by last name first. TIL.

 

[makam]

My issue generally stems from unfamiliarity with the naming conventions and whether whatever media has switched them around for an American/English-speaking audience. I’m guessing that they have as much trouble with our names in some cases due to lack of familiarity and these days when someone is Madison Payton, even I don’t know if it has been reversed, is two first names, etc. Obviously I know that Zhang is usually a last name but maybe trendy Chinese are naming their kids with last names like trendy Americans have been so I try to never assume/guess.

 

[blake]

Interestingly, when I did a quick double-check, apparently a few European countries/cultures also go by last name first. TIL.

Hungary is the first that comes to my mind, and with a couple exceptions, they leave any foreign names in the individual’s culture’s conventional order.

 

[IratePanda]

A basic guide to Chinese names

Check out some basic information about Chinese names, and helpful tips on how to pronounce them. | Asia Media Centre

www.asiamediacentre.org.nz

 

[Hatsumomo]

From what I read it was Hungary, the Bavaria region in Germany, and the Sami in Finland.

 

[Denn]

First, I think that, for this discussion, it’s probably better to say “family names” and “personal names” instead of “last names” and “first names”, lest people get disoriented.

On the one hand … (and native Chinese speakers can correct me if I am wrong) … As someone who speaks a little Chinese and whose significant other is of Chinese background, it’s come to sound odd when people refer to a Chinese-background athlete (or celebrity or whatever) by EITHER family name OR personal name, unless they are close, in which case it’s personal name, although when the personal name is one character, even then, it’s usually fully name. That’s why, if see YouTube videos pulled from Chinese gymnastics broadcasts, you’ll hear full names a lot.

So writing just personal names is definitely strange, but writing just family names is even a little strange for Chinese names, too, @IratePanda, wouldn’t you say? (Chinese writers would just put all 2-3 characters… very occasionally 4, though I don’t think we ever had a world class gymnast with 4 characters in the name.)

However…

when speaking a given language, there is a tendency to use the conventions of that language. It’s not insensitive necessarily, and it happens in almost all languages. As @MaryClare pointed out, it’s certainly the case that speakers of English use personal names more readily than than speakers of many other languages. And @GymBeauty does have a point (I literally just felt my heart stop as I typed that) that this is a gymnastics discussion forum. If we were listening British gymnasts’ names, we might write Jess, Jen, Becky, etc.

That’s all to say that the situation is inherently a little awkward linguistically. I think it’s good to let these things slide a little.

That said, the grammarian in me definitely red-flagged the inconsistency! When I see someone write things like “The finalists were Sacramone, Kaeslin, Un-Jong, Fei” that’s suuuuper weird.

 

[makam]

"The finalists were Sacramone, Kaeslin, Un-Jong, Fei” that’s suuuuper weird.

I was definitely guilty of that because it took me a while to nail down Tiana Sumansekera (i still don’t have it quite right, do i?)'s name. Tiana or Tiana S. felt like i was naming the right person without mangling her name. And i usually don’t go look things up when i am phone typing or fast replying which is a me problem, obviously.

 

[RedBirdie]

I usually go with Tiana or Tiana S. because I don’t want to spell her name wrong, particularly if I’m on my phone.