2024 NCAA Regionals (NOW! 4/3/24)

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Agreed. Frankly, id almost argue that the top four teams ranked by nqs should advance to nationals regardless of how regionals go. It would be a shame to not see them there. Same with individual and AA nqs finishers. I love the regional play off type system for teams but it really sucks if you have an off day or the scoring trends day of screw you over.

Winning nationals should be a day of affair. Qualifying shouldn't be.

I think this is one of those perfect world scenarios that makes 100% sense but might turn out to be a nightmare and make the scoring situation cross the line into blatant cheating.

I think individual qualifiers should be greatly increased and qualify by session, not by regional site. It’s still not perfect but at least takes out some scoring inconsistencies.

I don’t really think it’s too much of a travesty that Harris didn’t qualify for AA, she had an off day. This happens all the time in elite and no one bats an eye.

 

[dweiss324]

I think it's really weird that regardless of your own personal score day of, your individual spot at nationals is determined by which team makes it or doesn't make it at your regional. That seems very silly to me.

I don't think high nqs individuals should automatically be given medals at nationals, I just see no reason they shouldn't be included in nationals given their season achievements

 

[BB12]

I like that you have to earn your spot at nationals based on your performance at 1 competition. We don't advance teams to nationals based on a whole season - they get there based on how they handle the pressure of an elimination meet. I like that the same expectation is there for the individuals.

 

[irichluck21]

Which is fine but the current rules strictly limit individuals from advancing

 

[dweiss324]

But a team averages 20 scores across a meet. It can absorb errant steps, it can get on a hot streak and excel, it can fall apart in a rotation, it can come back from a fall.

An individual with a single score cannot absorb things the way a team can when scores are bunched between 9.85 and 10, and a tiny adjustment or a step or a morning session or a judge's disposition is the determining factor of individual qualification to nationals. They're just apples and oranges.

 

[RichardL]

Presumably many of the fans here following NCAA gymnastics also follow elite gymnastics, but I've never heard complaints about the one-and-done nature of World/Olympic qualifications. Should World Cup series winners be granted automatic event finals berths at Worlds because of their season of demonstrated success, for example? I mean it's something to consider, but I'm not sure anyone considering these changes to NCAA rules have suggested them for elite, which is interesting.

 

[dweiss324]

But individual elite gymnasts do have multiple opportunities to qualify for worlds or Olympics. The world cup series is literally a series of opportunities to gain points over the season

 

[RichardL]

But individual elite gymnasts do have multiple opportunities to qualify for worlds or Olympics. The world cup series is literally a series of opportunities to gain points over the season

Sure, but in the case of NCAA, the low number of gymnasts who get to compete at Nationals make it into something of a "finals" situation, which you qualify for in elite based on one routine. But I get what you're saying. Just feels like fans of NCAA want there to be way more of a reward for a strong season than fans of elite seem interested in justifying, where peaking for the big show is way more of a culture both in coaching and in the general understanding of fans.

 

[Sasha]

I wonder if part of the difference between elite and NCAA is the larger number of athletes and higher score parity (due to the absence of an open-ended code) in NCAA. In elite, there are usually a smallish number of people that we expect to qualify for Worlds or OIympics, and if they don't qualify, it's normally due to injury or substantial underperformance. In NCAA we get a lot more unforeseen results, like Jade Carey qualifying only on beam. There's more room for randomness.

As a fan, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the individual finals. Above and beyond the issues caused by the procedures, it's just hard to focus on individuals in the middle of a team final.

 

[MaryClare]

I wonder if part of the difference between elite and NCAA is the larger number of athletes and higher score parity (due to the absence of an open-ended code) in NCAA. In elite, there are usually a smallish number of people that we expect to qualify for Worlds or OIympics, and if they don't qualify, it's normally due to injury or substantial underperformance. In NCAA we get a lot more unforeseen results, like Jade Carey qualifying only on beam. There's more room for randomness.

As a fan, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the individual finals. Above and beyond the issues caused by the procedures, it's just hard to focus on individuals in the middle of a team final.

Yes, I think also the number of top teams/athletes has grown significantly in NCAA, where as in elite, it’s fairly consistent

 

[irichluck21]

Presumably many of the fans here following NCAA gymnastics also follow elite gymnastics, but I've never heard complaints about the one-and-done nature of World/Olympic qualifications. Should World Cup series winners be granted automatic event finals berths at Worlds because of their season of demonstrated success, for example? I mean it's something to consider, but I'm not sure anyone considering these changes to NCAA rules have suggested them for elite, which is interesting.

But also there are way more opportunities to qualify to Worlds and Olympics than for NCAA nationals as individuals.
There are only 4 AA slots to NCAA, where as there are multiple to Paris.
14 spots through AA at Worlds, 3 spots for teams 13-15 at Worlds, and 5 AA spots via continentals. This is a total of 22 AAers going to Paris other than the 12 teams (by which there are 4 more teams than NCAA Nationals. So that is 18 AAers more than NCAA Nationals.
Not to mention that all individual event qualifiers can do AA in Paris if they choose.

I am not complaining about the one and done nature of NCAA regionals qualifications to nationals. More so, the number of opportunities for competitors to compete there.
Since the format changed, the opportunity to advance for individuals has decreased dramatically.


Previously, 12 AAers advanced to nationals, top 2 at each regional not from a qualified team.
Additionally, because 12 teams advanced and not 8, there was a better chance to qualify individually. There was also less competition because there were 6 teams per regional, not 9.
So to go from 12 down to 4 is really where it is disappointing as there are high quality AAers not able to compete for the National AA title.
5 of the top 15 AAers this year are out of Nationals for example.

 

[Orange]

Didn’t the qualifying get a bit easier for individuals on the individual events with the format change? Wasn’t the format before that an individual had to win an event outright to get to nationals, not just be the highest scoring person not on a team? So basically someone would have to beat the entire Oklahoma beam lineup to get a nationals spot for beam out of that regional. They may have cut an individual AA qualifier, but we are getting more individuals on the separate events.

Honestly, I don’t have a problem with how the format is now. It’s sports and you have to hit on the day to move on. I feel like you shouldn’t get a mulligan just because you had a bad day.

The role tv plays in the whole format is kind of flying under the radar, too. ESPN wants these meets done in two hours. That was the entire reason nationals got cut down from 12 teams to 8. Adding more individuals will make the meets longer, and ESPN doesn’t want that.

 

[irichluck21]

Yes, you had to be the regional winner to go to Nationals.
But there were generally about the same number of individual event finalist from regionals to nationals are there are now (16)

For example in 2015 there were 12 athletes that went for event finals.
Also, ties were not broken back then and anyone tied for the title would advance, where as now they break the tie, as we saw multiple athletes tie for the event spot but were eliminated due to tie breaker.

This year in just the Cal regional, Chae Campbell advanced when she won a tie breaker with 9 other gymnasts on floor and Selena Harris won a 5 way tie on beam.

 

[irichluck21]

Honestly, I don’t have a problem with how the format is now. It’s sports and you have to hit on the day to move on. I feel like you shouldn’t get a mulligan just because you had a bad day.

Part of the problem is that athletes are hitting but miss out due to tie breakers. Additionally, the judging is inconsistent, and athletes are actually being ranked properly. Athletes are not being properly differentiated.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

The individual results are nonsensical. The qualification is stupid - why does an athlete on a qualified team get to be in the mix for the AA without getting an AA NQS or doing AA at regionals, while someone like Worley or Harris can’t go? The number of ties also makes the whole thing pointless.

I’d honestly rather they use NQS than the Nationals event for individuals, and that is saying something since the scoring situation is so bleak. But at least the participation isn’t completely canted toward athletes from the team qualifiers.

It’s especially unreasonable that Selena can’t compete, but a qualified team could put up someone who hasn’t done AA all year, and that person could win despite not having an NQS or placing top X at regionals. It’s ok to make it hard to make Nationals. It just isn’t equitable to be able to bypass a difficult qualification process if you’re on a good team.

That's what I like about the high school state competition for Illinois. If you don't qualify in the top however many in AA or one of the events at sectionals even if you're a part of a team, your score doesn't count for the individual events at state.

 

[RedBirdie]

Wisconsin is the same way. There are two divisions (large school and small school). In each division, there are five sectionals. Each sectional advances 2 teams, top five AAers, and top 5 on each event. Team and individual competitions are completely separate. How well you perform in the team comp has zero bearing on individual event awards.

All arounders are only eligible for event awards if they also qualified as one of the top five on that event. So you might qualify as an all arounder, but you finished 6th on every event at sectionals, so at the state meet you are only eligible for AA. Even if you score the highest beam score, you didn't qualify on beam so no medal or ranking for you.

 

[irichluck21]

We shall see who gets the event titles wins this year, if they all or almost all come from session 2, it'll be similar to the last few years.

 

[Beamer]

We've mentioned Selena Harris and Raena Worley not getting to compete AA at NCAAs, but that makes it sound like a fluke thing that only a couple of top AAers didn't qualify.

In reality, 4 of the top 10 ranked AAers in the country didn't qualify to compete AA at NCAAs:

Jessica Hutchinson (4)
Selena Harris (5)
Raena Worley (7)
Sierra Brooks (9)

That's 40%, almost half.

That's like Shilese Jones, Leanne Wong, Jade Carey, and Jordan Chiles all not qualifying to compete AA at U.S. Nationals.

This is an (NCAA) National Championship after all, NOT an Olympic Games. So comparisons to the Olympic Games are not really comparing apples to apples.