TF first or last?

[RAFIKI]

What does everyone think of Euros putting TF last?

As much as I criticise multiple aspects of BBC commentary these days, they did have some interesting discussion points about this new order during the MAG TF.

• Cheaper accommodation bills for federations of smaller countries that might have specialists making EF but would never make TF.
• Acts as a grand finale rather than a starter.
• Means specialists won't withdraw/water down to save themselves for EF.

They were speculating about the reason TF normally comes first and I think Matt wondered if it was because "that's how it's always been done". In the compulsory era optionals had to come first, but that no longer applies. I suppose when TF became a thing it was probably natural to keep it as the first medal event. Does anyone remember any discussion about the order in FIG minutes or messageboards?

I like the traditional order because it zooms in from teams to event winners in terms of numbers of gymnasts/routines. I'm also conditioned to believe that it's the right order! I suspect Euros has done it to maximise spectator numbers with Italy in contention for team medals for MAG/WAG. However I'm interested in pondering the pros and cons of having TF last instead of first (especially if it stops me thinking about the BG WAG situation).

 

[MrSixkiller]

I think it works in this case because qualifications is also the all around. I don’t think it would normally work.

 

[irichluck21]

I like it being the grand finale. But not sure how that would work for Worlds or Olympics.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I'd be too afraid of someone getting injured in AA or event finals, team finals being last.

 

[06gymnast]

I'd be too afraid of someone getting injured in AA or event finals, team finals being last.

This. Two vault finalist D'Amto and Georgieva then Charpy on bars at the 2022 euros.
If they were injured before TF, that Could have made a huge difference in team finals for Italy and France. Don't most federations care more about a team medal than individuals?

 

[MaryClare]

Yes I think Italy just really wanted the team finals at the weekend.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I'd be too afraid of someone getting injured in AA or event finals, team finals being last.

Same.

The beauty also of having the individual events later is that the athletes in them are released from team concerns. If you want to go for your risky upgrade to improve your medal chances, you don't have to worry about what impact that might have on the team medal chances.

Though I take the point about costs. With the shortage of hosts for big events now, we may have to embrace scheduling that makes things cheaper.

 

[irichluck21]

I guess now that teams are allowed to sub in alternates, that would be important.

 

[MrSixkiller]

This. Two vault finalist D'Amto and Georgieva then Charpy on bars at the 2022 euros.
If they were injured before TF, that Could have made a huge difference in team finals for Italy and France. Don't most federations care more about a team medal than individuals?

Exactly. How would that work with alternates?

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Having now had a whole WAG Euros with this format, I still prefer the traditional TFs first. However, it's undeniable that the EFs were much less splatty than the average, and I don't think it was a case of swapping the falls from EFs to the team either.

It was interesting to see Becky Downie, an athlete whose consistency rates vary wildly depending on the stage of the competition, still continue the pattern of hitting well in the TF and splatting in the final, even when the days were reversed. I think she was the only example there of an athlete who does much better in certain rounds of competition than others? I'm not sure if there were any MAG equivalents.

 

[onodian]

Patterson was also like that, but the other way around, struggled in TF, not in AA/EF

 

[MaryClare]

Patterson was also like that, but the other way around, struggled in TF, not in AA/EF

She did 2 team finals in her career? That’s not a lotta data

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The one I always think of for asymmetric hit rates is Aly.

 

[MrSixkiller]

Gabby, too. I don’t think she has ever hit an EF bars routine.

 

[david]

Dawes too

 

[lovegymnasts]

Was just about to type Dawes. She could always do it for the team but not for herself.

 

[Bob]

I prefer traditional format but it made a change.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Gabby, too. I don’t think she has ever hit an EF bars routine.

There was 2015 worlds. She was pretty good there. But yeah, her EF record is much weaker than in team and AA. She had her moments in qualifications too, when I think of it.

 

[MrSixkiller]

There was 2015 worlds. She was pretty good there. But yeah, her EF record is much weaker than in team and AA. She had her moments in qualifications too, when I think of it.

I totally forgot she was in that EF. In my mind, there were only 4 gymnasts in that final.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I totally forgot she was in that EF. In my mind, there were only 4 gymnasts in that final.

Understandable! It was a profoundly surreal experience.