Team USA moving forward

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I'm not putting much stock in a post Olympic worlds, however, I think most of us agree that team USA doesn't seem to have enough A list seniors to be at their typical form for the Worlds and Olympics coming this quad. So what do they need and from who? DO NOT SAY SIMONE BECAUSE DUH. I think they need a healthy AA Shilese and Blakely, and probably could use a Jade Carey. What other injured/not-currently-competing athletes could they use that realistically may be back in the fold?
 
USA WAG is now in a similar transitional period that other top teams went through that USA was able to take advantage of 2008-2024. The rising seniors are going to be the first crop not coming up under Marta's fist, a lot of the old guard of coaches are/will likely be retiring/stepping back, and no longer having Simone to carry a team.
 
They shouldn't have to rely on people returning, that just kicks the can down the road. Do they have any promising juniors coming up?
Charleigh Bullock, Lavi Crain, and Caroline Moreau are the current top juniors and all three will be senior next year. They look great for juniors, but not really screaming senior A-squad as of yet. Bullock could be walking on teams with her UB set to prop up TFs and be in EFs, but she needs refinement and at least one other event to be TF-worthy. Crain is coached by the Fongs so she could go the way of Wong, if not just broken. I haven't seen much of Moreau so I can't say anything about her yet.
 
I think the bigger issue is, how do they fix the broken junior pipeline? Even if you could woo back Jade Carey and Jordan Chiles, and get Shilese Jones healthy and Skye Blakely looking like it's June 2024, that's just delaying the reckoning.

Al Fong and Valeri Liukin are going to break their athletes and saddle them with terrible routine construction.

The 2007-2009 gymnasts seem incapable of making the leap to the truly elite level. Caylor might have finally done it, but we'll see if she's able to sustain this sudden glow-up or turns back into exhibit 6,345 of "promising junior with unfulfilled potential."

Of the current juniors, you have Crain, who is cursed with Fong, Bullock, and Moreau--and she's Texas Dreams so I'm not holding my breath. None of the other juniors scream "Future star!" And the junior pool seems to shrink every year.

Hopes isn't working. If anything, it's harming the elite program by producing gymnasts who chuck difficulty at the expense of learning proper basics and technique. You all have read my rants on Hopes before.

I watch compulsory girls and very few of them can really swing bars. I can't really explain it, but they're all so stiff. Sure, their legs are together and toes pointed, but they don't swing. And if you can't swing at the lower levels, you'll never swing bars as an elite. To say nothing of the incredibly stiff movement and presentation they have on floor and beam. There's no fluidity. They hit the choreography, often very sharp with their chests shoved out and eyes staring straight ahead, but there is no elegance, no sense of this gymnasts knows how to move with grace and purpose, and certainly not the slightest hit of artistry.

And don't get me started on using Xcel to skip compulsory levels.
 
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They can start by getting rid of Dan Baker and fixing their development program and fixing their domestic judging.

There’s nothing they can do about the Florida coaches and how ill-equipped they are to coach elite, but at a certain point I hope gymnasts start to notice. I have more faith in the Arkansas coaching staff to coach elites.
 
I feel like people who otherwise might have retired might be tempted to try for LA, given it's a home Olympics. So, this quad they might just be OK if they can get a couple of veterans back. Next will be when the problems really start to show.
 
They can start by getting rid of Dan Baker and fixing their development program and fixing their domestic judging.

There’s nothing they can do about the Florida coaches and how ill-equipped they are to coach elite, but at a certain point I hope gymnasts start to notice. I have more faith in the Arkansas coaching staff to coach elites.
eh. I don't have faith in the Florida coaches, but nothing I've seen from Arkansas inspires me. Other than bars, Roberson looks even sloppier than before, and her technique has gone down the shitter. She's doing more difficulty than she can handle and she's gotten hurt as a result.

Meanwhile, Florida seems constitutionally allergic to putting difficulty in Wong's routines.
 
One thing that has bothered me for nearly 20 years now is how USA WAG never took true advantage of the semi-centralized system they've created for themselves. Probably a large part of it is ego, but how do you get all these gymnasts and coaches at the same place for a week every month and not do event workshops/rehabbing? Take a coach that can really coach, say beam, and have them work with gymnasts who need help there? Coaches who understand the CoP and routine construction to workshop routines? Camps in the off-season be dedicated to working on body carriage and flow?
 
One thing that has bothered me for nearly 20 years now is how USA WAG never took true advantage of the semi-centralized system they've created for themselves. Probably a large part of it is ego, but how do you get all these gymnasts and coaches at the same place for a week every month and not do event workshops/rehabbing? Take a coach that can really coach, say beam, and have them work with gymnasts who need help there? Coaches who understand the CoP and routine construction to workshop routines? Camps in the off-season be dedicated to working on body carriage and flow?
Yep. No one actually says anything. At least Martha was vocal about taking risk
 
They can start by getting rid of Dan Baker and fixing their development program and fixing their domestic judging.

There’s nothing they can do about the Florida coaches and how ill-equipped they are to coach elite, but at a certain point I hope gymnasts start to notice. I have more faith in the Arkansas coaching staff to coach elites.
Baker's gone--Okino is the new developmental lead.

Memmel and Sacramone have complained repeatedly about the push back they're getting from established coaches when they try to put in new, evidence-backed best practices, and it doesn't seem like USAG is willing to give them the teeth to just do it. And they can't make the coaches change bad routine construction or change their approaches in the gym. It seems like they've been able to implement maybe 50% of their plan because the coaches aren't interested in changes and USAG isn't interested in making them
 
Baker's gone--Okino is the new developmental lead.

Memmel and Sacramone have complained repeatedly about the push back they're getting from established coaches when they try to put in new, evidence-backed best practices, and it doesn't seem like USAG is willing to give them the teeth to just do it. And they can't make the coaches change bad routine construction or change their approaches in the gym. It seems like they've been able to implement maybe 50% of their plan because the coaches aren't interested in changes and USAG isn't interested in making them
Totally forgot about Betty. We love her, but does she have the experience as a developmental coach?

And I understand the pushback Chelsie and ASac are getting, but that’s a leadership issue and the culture they have set. They certainly shouldn’t be emulating Martha, but there are ways to set the necessary culture.
 
Baker's gone--Okino is the new developmental lead.

Memmel and Sacramone have complained repeatedly about the push back they're getting from established coaches when they try to put in new, evidence-backed best practices, and it doesn't seem like USAG is willing to give them the teeth to just do it. And they can't make the coaches change bad routine construction or change their approaches in the gym. It seems like they've been able to implement maybe 50% of their plan because the coaches aren't interested in changes and USAG isn't interested in making them
So, ego it is. I guess the lesson has to be learned with a quad of USA WAG falling long and hard from the top spot they've held for over a decade without the old guard of gymnasts artificially propping them up. No introspection in the fact that Shilese, Simone, Jade, Sunisa, and Jordan did not come from the "prestige" coaches.
 
Baker's gone--Okino is the new developmental lead.

Memmel and Sacramone have complained repeatedly about the push back they're getting from established coaches when they try to put in new, evidence-backed best practices, and it doesn't seem like USAG is willing to give them the teeth to just do it. And they can't make the coaches change bad routine construction or change their approaches in the gym. It seems like they've been able to implement maybe 50% of their plan because the coaches aren't interested in changes and USAG isn't interested in making them
I wonder if USAG could do something support younger and newer coaches and gyms that might be more open to change than the old guard. There's a lot of old-school thinking and ego in that group, and the best option knight be to develop a viable alternative to them rather than try to change them. Though this is hardly a short-term solution.
 
Culture change takes time.

Betty Okino focusing on dance and execution will take time. But she is correct as traditionally US has opted for high D and won because of high D scores. 2022 Worlds was without Simone and the team won quite easily but also had some of the highest D scores in the field.

Dulcy Caylor is a shining example of this. She went for less difficulty and doing routines to the cleanest as she can. As a result she qualified to 3 finals. None of us had her on our Worlds roster after Nationals and look at where she is now. 5th best in the World after today's round-and that was with a bars mistake. Let's see what happens.

Nemour is another example of this, she does high difficulty, executed precisely and use the connections as her strength. Even with a fall on beam she still got over 13 and made beam finals. She makes smart decisions like removing the two foot layout and simply going for the layout.
She can win the AA easily even with a full twisting yuchenko.

USAG's culture change is important but now they need to rethink the strategy of pushing the D score.
In Marta's era, she pushed the difficulty, but also consistency. Americans were going to hit. That was the fear, that if they don't hit they are off the team. Not the best strategy but it worked.

I love that athlete's are getting more voice and also given more chances. Asking Jordan if she was up to doing beam in team finals NEVER would have happened under Marta.

So moving forward if USA wants to keep up the winning tradition, they need to focus on execution and dance. They also NEED to score better domestically. Inflating scores does not help. Roberson's floor needed to be hammered for execution and dance at home before coming to Worlds. This was also a problem under Marta.
 
It's funny in this thread that we're still talking about athletes who were seniors as far back as 2017 (Carey, Chiles) and 2018 (Jones) and 2019 (Wong), as well as gymnasts who were eligible for Tokyo (Blakely). What a difference from, say, 2012, where Raisman was the veteran who had been to just two Worlds and everyone else just had Tokyo Worlds under their belt (or nothing, in the case of Ross).

But I don't think things are as dire as they might seem after yesterday. No one had Caylor on their team and she's now in the top AA group with two EFs. What I mean by that is not just that she did great (she did!) but that this competition is pure chaos. The best beamer in the world fell while doing choreography. Gymnasts qualified to finals with falls.

The US National Champion and Olympic veteran is out with injury, and she's legitimately a successful recent junior to senior transition. I think there's reason to believe that Gabrielle Hardie can be a star. And for all the fears about the havoc GAGE could wreak on Crain, she's great so far. But also, other teams are also still relying on geriatric talent as well. Melnikova was in Rio, as was Andrade. Black was in London! Everyone on the Chinese team was eligible for the last Olympics, and Deng Yalan is basically a grandmother.

Who are the new seniors who are grabbing the torch heading into LA internationally? Perotti? I think this is more of a global issue than a US issue in a lot of ways. The US could be seen as just a microcosm of a bigger trend.
 
USA only won two team titles in Marta’s entire first decade in charge. At least SacraMemmel aren’t actively destroying incoming talent.

Valeri Liukin really did this job the best.
The thing about Martha though was that she threw away several titles due to mismanagement, overtraining, and being a general asshat.

That’s a much more addressable issue than the lack of talent and development.
 

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