Revisiting Past Age Falsifications

[rlayt]

This isn’t relative to the other recent threads I found about the Romanians. Gina made it to Barcelona by getting a year added to her age.

“The Uncaught Thief”.

“The Uncaught Thief”: Unraveling Gina Gogean’s Age – Gymnastics History

 

[Puffin]

Silivas wasn't age eligible for the gold she won at 1985 worlds because she was only 13 - the Romanians changed her birth year from 1972 to 1970 and issued her a new passport.

 

[KorbutFan]

Neither was Popa. She was born in 1971.

 

[youwannacranson]

Alexandra Marinescu was the last Romanian to have her passport falsified

Several Soviets did, including Bicherova who was only 12 (IIRC) when she won 1981 Worlds

 

[RedBirdie]

Wasn't there speculation that Viktoria Karpenko was falsified by a year?

 

[Matilda23]

I read that Monica Zahiu also had her age increased. I wonder if Claudia Presecan did too? IIRC she was pictured training with Marinescu and Zahiu at Steaua Bucharest in 1993 or 1994?

 

[Matilda23]

Wasn't there speculation that Viktoria Karpenko was falsified by a year?

I think this was due to how an article was written in International Gymnastics magazine. IIRC article was printed in 1995 and said something like, “the 12 year old, who fell 3 times at the 1994 National Championships” so people assumed she was 12 in 1995 when they were reading article. I think it meant she was 12 at the 1994 National Championships (which is fine with a 1981 birthdate).

 

[Angelika]

Lets not forget the Chinese - too many to mention!

 

[MaryClare]

I have err, seen a couple of “birthday wishes” posts on VK that don’t quite tally with said persons FIG profile

 

[Matilda23]

I have err, seen a couple of “birthday wishes” posts on VK that don’t quite tally with said persons FIG profile

What decade did they compete?!

 

[MaryClare]

What decade did they compete?!

Have seen a couple of later than expected 50th and 60th birthday celebrations.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I think this was due to how an article was written in International Gymnastics magazine. IIRC article was printed in 1995 and said something like, “the 12 year old, who fell 3 times at the 1994 National Championships” so people assumed she was 12 in 1995 when they were reading article. I think it meant she was 12 at the 1994 National Championships (which is fine with a 1981 birthdate).

That's interesting. I knew there'd always been rumours about Karpenko but had no idea of the source.

On the Romanians specifically, am I right in thinking the ones we know for sure/near as are Gogean, Silivas and Marinescu, or am I forgetting anyone?

 

[MaryClare]

That's interesting. I knew there'd always been rumours about Karpenko but had no idea of the source.

On the Romanians specifically, am I right in thinking the ones we know for sure/near as are Gogean, Silivas and Marinescu, or am I forgetting anyone?

There was definitely something with Agache/Szabo

 

[phoenix7]

Szabo, Agache, Ilienko, Mostepanova, Bicherova, Omelianchik in the 1984 quad. Then Romania continued with select gymnasts into the 1996 quad and China was found to have falsified in 2000. I hadn't heard about Victoria Karpenko before.

Was the 1980 change of regulations a surprise to federations? It seems to have been followed by a slew of cases, as if the "pipeline" had been disrupted, but I don't know of any examples of Soviet falsifications after 1984.

 

[Puffin]

I saw Olga Mostepanova at the 1980 Coca Cola International - where she must had been only 11!


Also if people are saying Olga Bicherova was only 12 at 1981 Worlds baby Bicherova must have been only 9 or 10 at 1979 Moscow News - although she gave her back a nasty jolt on ub.

 

[phoenix7]

I saw Olga Mostepanova at the 1980 Coca Cola International - where she must had been only 11!


Also if people are saying Olga Bicherova was only 12 at 1981 Worlds baby Bicherova must have been only 9 or 10 at 1979 Moscow News - although she gave her back a nasty jolt on ub.

She could well be under ten there, definitely. Of course they all wore the pigtails and bows but she comes across very much as a child.

 

[phoenix7]

Also Eugenia Golea in 1985 - literally half Romania's world championship team that year, with Silivas and Popa.

I see that the investigative journalism used in the linked article is from 2002, so could still have been within the statute of limitations. Not surprising Gina Gogean wouldn't admit to it at that point, though I really don't see how you could blame her for this.

I think it's relevant to current Romanian scandals that - apart from Alexandra Marinescu who broke with the establishment fair and square - only gymnasts who moved abroad like Szabo and Silivas have been open about this. That said, this isn't just a Romanian phenomenon. We still don't seem to have certain dates of birth for some of the ex Soviet gymnasts at all.

 

[L_R]

Wasnt' there a rumour that Kim Gwan Suk was only 10 or 11 at 89 Worlds .

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Also Eugenia Golea in 1985 - literally half Romania's world championship team that year, with Silivas and Popa.

I see that the investigative journalism used in the linked article is from 2002, so could still have been within the statute of limitations. Not surprising Gina Gogean wouldn't admit to it at that point, though I really don't see how you could blame her for this.

I think it's relevant to current Romanian scandals that - apart from Alexandra Marinescu who broke with the establishment fair and square - only gymnasts who moved abroad like Szabo and Silivas have been open about this. That said, this isn't just a Romanian phenomenon. We still don't seem to have certain dates of birth for some of the ex Soviet gymnasts at all.

Wasn't the statute of limitations 8 years to begin the process? I remember a lot of discussion in 08 about how the Dong Fangxiao investigation had just made it, although it dragged on until 2010.

@L_R there's a lot of speculation with Kim Gwang Suk, understandably, but I think the youngest guess I've seen for her is born 1978. That would've made her 10 or 11 at 89 worlds and not of age until 1993. Would also make her 8 or 9 at 87 Druzhba.

 

[phoenix7]

Wasn't the statute of limitations 8 years to begin the process? I remember a lot of discussion in 08 about how the Dong Fangxiao investigation had just made it, although it dragged on until 2010.

@L_R there's a lot of speculation with Kim Gwang Suk, understandably, but I think the youngest guess I've seen for her is born 1978. That would've made her 10 or 11 at 89 worlds and not of age until 1993. Would also make her 8 or 9 at 87 Druzhba.

Oh I think you must be right - sorry. I had ten in my head.