Random Russia sh*t

[Amber]

That’s why I still don’t understand why melnikova is allowed to compete, she also participted in rallies , there is also proof of that and at the time she was an adult. She competes for an army club (right?) and she went into politics before making a comeback.
MC do you know why she is allowed to compete?

 

[MaryClare]

That’s why I still don’t understand why melnikova is allowed to compete, she also participted in rallies , there is also proof of that and at the time she was an adult. She competes for an army club (right?) and she went into politics before making a comeback.
MC do you know why she is allowed to compete?

I don’t know, I know that the RGF was a little surprised she was granted AIN status immediately.
I can only assume that the difference between Melnikova and Listunova is the ambiguity. There is a lot where Melnikova is concerned and none for Listunova.
As far as I’m aware, the only ‘charge’ against Listunova is her participation at a rally when she was under 18. I don’t think there is anything else she has said or done in life or on social media that would be an issue.
Melnikova to my knowledge has not participated in any political rallies but has appeared at victory day parades. Whilst while seem very militaristic, are a long standing commemoration of the end of WW2.

 

[Matilda23]

Didn’t Melnikova post a photo of herself at the parade, but in her hand was a program that had a Z on the cover page. I agree it’s ambiguous

 

[Aizheng]

They haven’t said, but I’d assume for the same reason it was denied first time.

Listunova’s situation is certainly interesting. There’s irrefutable proof of her participating in a rally that makes her ineligible for AIN status according to FIG rules. I am not aware of anything else she has said or done that would be a problem.

I guess her case rests on the question for how long is it acceptable to punish someone for something they did as a minor. If as a minor she had committed a fairly serious crime 4 years ago, she would have already served her punishment.

I don’t look at it as an individual “punishment”. There are rules in place. If the rules do not state anything regarding age, it is only correct for her to be excluded and not been given AIN status.

It does seem like they are pretty much sticking to the exact letter of the rule, not taking into account things that should also disqualify you but are not specifically mentioned, nor extenuating circumstances.

Should the rules be phrased better? Absolutely! Should melnikova be excluded? In my opinion, yes.

I think at minimum, AIN should not be able to field a team, and all AINs should be 2-per-ing each other instead of this weird AIN-1 and AIN-2 thing.

The fact that Putin was seriously celebrating Melnikova’s win should be disqualifying, in my opinion, at least until Ukraine and Russia are in a lasting ceasefire or peace.

 

[MaryClare]

The fact that Putin was seriously celebrating Melnikova’s win should be disqualifying,

No athlete has any control over who celebrates their win

 

[Aizheng]

No athlete has any control over who celebrates their win

True, but if the FIG and Olympics were serious, Putin using Russian gymnasts for propaganda would be disqualifying for all these gymnasts. It’s not personal against the individual gymnasts, but against the regime.

Is it unfair that individual gymnasts suffer? Yes, but it’s also unfair that Ukrainian gymnasts suffer because of Putin’s war of aggression.

Not a melnikova-specific argument, though.

 

[Bob]

I think it is nonsense. There are other countries who have 'invaded/ bullied/ imposed' their wishes on other countries. If Russia are banned they should all be banned. Singling out Melnikova is odd and wrong. How can we separate the actions of Russia from the actions of others taking place at the moment in the world. I don't get it.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I think it is nonsense. There are other countries who have 'invaded/ bullied/ imposed' their wishes on other countries. If Russia are banned they should all be banned. Singling out Melnikova is odd and wrong. How can we separate the actions of Russia from the actions of others taking place at the moment in the world. I don't get it.

It's because there's an existing and agreed framework for sanctions based on Olympic specific misbehaviour, and only Russia has been stupid enough to violate that.

There's a discussion to be had about whether the world would've continued to overlook their nonsense if they hadn't so expansively taken the piss with doping, I grant you. But equally, it's hardly an onerous bar to clear. Just wait a bit longer to invade and don't include any foreign territory you occupy in your Olympic federation.

 

[Sasha]

Are we talking FIG or IOC here? The IOC has a clear red line, the FIG does not as far as I'm aware.

I agree that athletes shouldn't be punished for who celebrates their win. First off, it's unfair to punish them for things out of their control. Second, imagine the precedent it would set.

 

[MaryClare]

we have a thread for discussing the impact that geopolitical events have had on gymnastics in Russia and U’raine. Perhaps this discussion could be moved there and this thread can be just about gymnastics. This definitely isn’t the place to discuss political policies of the IOC or the FIG.

I am honestly so fed up with threads being hijacked by political opinions.

 

[JaJa]

we have a thread for discussing the impact that geopolitical events have had on gymnastics in Russia and U’raine. Perhaps this discussion could be moved there and this thread can be just about gymnastics. This definitely isn’t the place to discuss political policies of the IOC or the FIG.

I am honestly so fed up with threads being hijacked by political opinions.

I agree. I also think we should keep politics off this Board and that politics should be kept out of the Olympics.. AR is right that Russia violated Olympic and should be banned on that basis -- not for political reasons.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Maybe what we need to do is hash out exactly what goes where.

Who is and isn't permitted to compete is a huge issue in Russian gymnastics at the moment. Discussion on X gymnast is/not banned, if anyone has taken it to CAS etc could legitimately be covered in either thread, since the root cause is the wider conflict.

With that in mind, would it help to draw a specific line about what we do and don't want in this thread? For example is discussion about whether we think the text of a rule is being applied go here, or is it better off in the other thread? I've no strong feelings either way but strikes me it might help to formulate a consensus.